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Should Nintendo launch in 2011-12 starting the next gen with monster power?

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Should Nintendo launch in 2011-12 starting the next gen with monster power?

Launch in 2011- early 12 ... 115 63.89%
 
Launch in 2011, just larg... 42 23.33%
 
Re-release current Wii in 2011, just with HD 23 12.78%
 
Total:180
hsrob said:
Mazty said:

Well you could make the argument against the PS3, apart from the fact the term shovelware came from the junk games produced on mass for the wii...
Yes it is a hypothetical argument, but one rooted in, as i said, surveys which suggest many wii owners do not tend to play on their consoles for an amount of time that a serious gamer would.
Problem is the install base, as I've been saying, may not be interested in another console, because they are content with what the wii offers. Clearly they did not want good graphics (360 and PS3 provide better) or media playback, or even a remote that worked 'well' (180ms lag), so why would they buy a better console if they are happy with dated graphics and a laggy pad?

Yes again this is hypothetical, but not something that should just be dismissed as the above point shows that wii owners have not got a want for high quality, therefore why buy a better Wii?

You are making judgements about the quality of Wii games and assumptions about Wii owners which you can't back up and which I would argue don't even matter.  You may not appreciate many of Wii's offerings and you are entitled to your opinion but this 'quality' doesn't speak to the buying habits of the people who play Wii games or their likelihood of supporting Nintendo's new console.  You are using soft data (surveys?) which suggest that these people don't play their games much but in the end it doesn't matter one bit as long as they buy games, and by extension, hardware.

The only hard data we have is attach rate. You are right that the attach rate doesn't mean much when you take a snapshot but (and you'll have to take my word for this if you are new to the site) the Wii's attach rate has been rising for over 3.5 years which tells us that it's established users and new users are continuing to buy games in significant numbers.  Once again it doesn't matter if they only play each game for 5 minutes, the point is they are willing to hand their hard earned over to Nintendo /andor it's third parties.  So what about the behaviour of these people makes you so sure they won't continue to spend their money on Nintendo in the next generation? 

The only data we have says they have been willing to buy games and continue to buy games, which strongly suggest thats they have so far been happy with the products they have purchased and are willing to spend money.  I'm not saying this guarantees their future loyalty to Nintendo or their gaming habit, but why are you so sure that it doesn't.

 

Well let's look at thte facts of the wii and what a new one could offer:
The wii is technically very dated. The games are graphically dated and AI is not going to be impressive compared to the rest of the market.
The pad response time is about 180ms meaning the owners are not concerned about a responsive pad, nor is it 1:1 without motion +.

What could a new console offer that could entice people who clearly are not bothered about graphics or tech as they have the wii to begin with?

If they wanted cheap gaming they'd have chosen the xbox. If they wanted hardcore games, xbox or PS3. If they wanted state of the art graphics/bluray they'd have gone for the PS3.

So again, what could a new console possibly offer to these people who dont care about graphics, tech or media?



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Mazty said:
hsrob said:
Mazty said:

Well you could make the argument against the PS3, apart from the fact the term shovelware came from the junk games produced on mass for the wii...
Yes it is a hypothetical argument, but one rooted in, as i said, surveys which suggest many wii owners do not tend to play on their consoles for an amount of time that a serious gamer would.
Problem is the install base, as I've been saying, may not be interested in another console, because they are content with what the wii offers. Clearly they did not want good graphics (360 and PS3 provide better) or media playback, or even a remote that worked 'well' (180ms lag), so why would they buy a better console if they are happy with dated graphics and a laggy pad?

Yes again this is hypothetical, but not something that should just be dismissed as the above point shows that wii owners have not got a want for high quality, therefore why buy a better Wii?

You are making judgements about the quality of Wii games and assumptions about Wii owners which you can't back up and which I would argue don't even matter.  You may not appreciate many of Wii's offerings and you are entitled to your opinion but this 'quality' doesn't speak to the buying habits of the people who play Wii games or their likelihood of supporting Nintendo's new console.  You are using soft data (surveys?) which suggest that these people don't play their games much but in the end it doesn't matter one bit as long as they buy games, and by extension, hardware.

The only hard data we have is attach rate. You are right that the attach rate doesn't mean much when you take a snapshot but (and you'll have to take my word for this if you are new to the site) the Wii's attach rate has been rising for over 3.5 years which tells us that it's established users and new users are continuing to buy games in significant numbers.  Once again it doesn't matter if they only play each game for 5 minutes, the point is they are willing to hand their hard earned over to Nintendo /andor it's third parties.  So what about the behaviour of these people makes you so sure they won't continue to spend their money on Nintendo in the next generation? 

The only data we have says they have been willing to buy games and continue to buy games, which strongly suggest thats they have so far been happy with the products they have purchased and are willing to spend money.  I'm not saying this guarantees their future loyalty to Nintendo or their gaming habit, but why are you so sure that it doesn't.

 

Well let's look at thte facts of the wii and what a new one could offer:
The wii is technically very dated. The games are graphically dated and AI is not going to be impressive compared to the rest of the market.
The pad response time is about 180ms meaning the owners are not concerned about a responsive pad, nor is it 1:1 without motion +.

What could a new console offer that could entice people who clearly are not bothered about graphics or tech as they have the wii to begin with?

If they wanted cheap gaming they'd have chosen the xbox. If they wanted hardcore games, xbox or PS3. If they wanted state of the art graphics/bluray they'd have gone for the PS3.

So again, what could a new console possibly offer to these people who dont care about graphics, tech or media?

you mean besides better graphics and other power based improvements that could easaly put it above PS360 and if Sony and Microsoft wait longer to launch their next gen multi platform titles that look better than on the competition bringing core gamers etc, 1:1 controls with sub 100ms from launch, nintendo brand recognition, marketing and Games, better online capabilities and whatever new thing Nintendo adds? what more do you want do you think that nintendo would be averse to aiming to bring morecore gamers abord and expanding their market even more? I mean who knows what new innovation Nintendo could bring to their next console and from what I have seen they don't even realy need whatever it will be.



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zarx said:
Mazty said:

 

Well let's look at thte facts of the wii and what a new one could offer:
The wii is technically very dated. The games are graphically dated and AI is not going to be impressive compared to the rest of the market.
The pad response time is about 180ms meaning the owners are not concerned about a responsive pad, nor is it 1:1 without motion +.

What could a new console offer that could entice people who clearly are not bothered about graphics or tech as they have the wii to begin with?

If they wanted cheap gaming they'd have chosen the xbox. If they wanted hardcore games, xbox or PS3. If they wanted state of the art graphics/bluray they'd have gone for the PS3.

So again, what could a new console possibly offer to these people who dont care about graphics, tech or media?

you mean besides better graphics and other power based improvements that could easaly put it above PS360 and if Sony and Microsoft wait longer to launch their next gen multi platform titles that look better than on the competition bringing core gamers etc, 1:1 controls with sub 100ms from launch, nintendo brand recognition, marketing and Games, better online capabilities and whatever new thing Nintendo adds? what more do you want do you think that nintendo would be averse to aiming to bring morecore gamers abord and expanding their market even more? I mean who knows what new innovation Nintendo could bring to their next console and from what I have seen they don't even realy need whatever it will be.

 

Thing is you just ignored my points, so I'll repeat myself;

If wii owners cared about graphics, they wouldn't own a wii as it is by far the worst of the 3 consoles for graphics. If they cared about responsive controls, they wouldn't have bothered with the wiimote and would be gaming on a 360 or PS3. The ones that care about 1:1 control own motion plus. 

What you can derive from wii owners are that they don't care about graphics, AI etc and generally the things improved by next gen consoles. Unless Nintendo go down the route of making something radically different, the wii owning market has shown itself not to be core gamers, meaning that you cant expect to treat them as such e.g. pretty graphics sells games, more power sells consoles etc.



2012 for me, 2011 is too early. Maybe announced at E3 2011.



Mazty said:
zarx said:
Mazty said:

 

Well let's look at thte facts of the wii and what a new one could offer:
The wii is technically very dated. The games are graphically dated and AI is not going to be impressive compared to the rest of the market.
The pad response time is about 180ms meaning the owners are not concerned about a responsive pad, nor is it 1:1 without motion +.

What could a new console offer that could entice people who clearly are not bothered about graphics or tech as they have the wii to begin with?

If they wanted cheap gaming they'd have chosen the xbox. If they wanted hardcore games, xbox or PS3. If they wanted state of the art graphics/bluray they'd have gone for the PS3.

So again, what could a new console possibly offer to these people who dont care about graphics, tech or media?

you mean besides better graphics and other power based improvements that could easaly put it above PS360 and if Sony and Microsoft wait longer to launch their next gen multi platform titles that look better than on the competition bringing core gamers etc, 1:1 controls with sub 100ms from launch, nintendo brand recognition, marketing and Games, better online capabilities and whatever new thing Nintendo adds? what more do you want do you think that nintendo would be averse to aiming to bring morecore gamers abord and expanding their market even more? I mean who knows what new innovation Nintendo could bring to their next console and from what I have seen they don't even realy need whatever it will be.

 

Thing is you just ignored my points, so I'll repeat myself;

If wii owners cared about graphics, they wouldn't own a wii as it is by far the worst of the 3 consoles for graphics. If they cared about responsive controls, they wouldn't have bothered with the wiimote and would be gaming on a 360 or PS3. The ones that care about 1:1 control own motion plus. 

What you can derive from wii owners are that they don't care about graphics, AI etc and generally the things improved by next gen consoles. Unless Nintendo go down the route of making something radically different, the wii owning market has shown itself not to be core gamers, meaning that you cant expect to treat them as such e.g. pretty graphics sells games, more power sells consoles etc.

you seem to forget the most important part: software. software makes the world go around, it's the most important part. the spec's don't mean **** if you don't have the software to back it up. the wii obviousely has software you cannot get anywhere else. even when this natal/move come out, they will still already have a 4 year head start on the competition in motion games.

 

also, we owners have different values (read malstrom's stuff, you will see the light). they don't care about graphics or super responsive controls, they care about assesability, arcade-like easy to learn but hard to master gameplay, and just generally games that are fun.



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vonboysp said:
Mazty said:

 

Thing is you just ignored my points, so I'll repeat myself;

If wii owners cared about graphics, they wouldn't own a wii as it is by far the worst of the 3 consoles for graphics. If they cared about responsive controls, they wouldn't have bothered with the wiimote and would be gaming on a 360 or PS3. The ones that care about 1:1 control own motion plus. 

What you can derive from wii owners are that they don't care about graphics, AI etc and generally the things improved by next gen consoles. Unless Nintendo go down the route of making something radically different, the wii owning market has shown itself not to be core gamers, meaning that you cant expect to treat them as such e.g. pretty graphics sells games, more power sells consoles etc.

you seem to forget the most important part: software. software makes the world go around, it's the most important part. the spec's don't mean **** if you don't have the software to back it up. the wii obviousely has software you cannot get anywhere else. even when this natal/move come out, they will still already have a 4 year head start on the competition in motion games.

 

also, we owners have different values (read malstrom's stuff, you will see the light). they don't care about graphics or super responsive controls, they care about assesability, arcade-like easy to learn but hard to master gameplay, and just generally games that are fun.

Well software is only limited by hardware, meaning the wii software is very limited.

Point being, that if wii owners do not care about graphics or responsive controls (180ms takes the piss for unresponsive, really), then what can Nintendo offer as an upgrade? You don't care about graphics so HD and any graphical advancement is pointless. You don't care about an increased response time or 1:1 motion (if you do the latter, you have motion+ ), so how can Nintendo make a better selling console when you actually don't care about hardware?

I'm not debating whether the games are fun or not, but I cannot see how the wii market is sustainable when the owners don't care about the things that are usually improved in the next gen version of consoles.



Mazty said:
zarx said:
Mazty said:

 

Well let's look at thte facts of the wii and what a new one could offer:
The wii is technically very dated. The games are graphically dated and AI is not going to be impressive compared to the rest of the market.
The pad response time is about 180ms meaning the owners are not concerned about a responsive pad, nor is it 1:1 without motion +.

What could a new console offer that could entice people who clearly are not bothered about graphics or tech as they have the wii to begin with?

If they wanted cheap gaming they'd have chosen the xbox. If they wanted hardcore games, xbox or PS3. If they wanted state of the art graphics/bluray they'd have gone for the PS3.

So again, what could a new console possibly offer to these people who dont care about graphics, tech or media?

you mean besides better graphics and other power based improvements that could easaly put it above PS360 and if Sony and Microsoft wait longer to launch their next gen multi platform titles that look better than on the competition bringing core gamers etc, 1:1 controls with sub 100ms from launch, nintendo brand recognition, marketing and Games, better online capabilities and whatever new thing Nintendo adds? what more do you want do you think that nintendo would be averse to aiming to bring morecore gamers abord and expanding their market even more? I mean who knows what new innovation Nintendo could bring to their next console and from what I have seen they don't even realy need whatever it will be.

 

Thing is you just ignored my points, so I'll repeat myself;

If wii owners cared about graphics, they wouldn't own a wii as it is by far the worst of the 3 consoles for graphics. If they cared about responsive controls, they wouldn't have bothered with the wiimote and would be gaming on a 360 or PS3. The ones that care about 1:1 control own motion plus. 

What you can derive from wii owners are that they don't care about graphics, AI etc and generally the things improved by next gen consoles. Unless Nintendo go down the route of making something radically different, the wii owning market has shown itself not to be core gamers, meaning that you cant expect to treat them as such e.g. pretty graphics sells games, more power sells consoles etc.

You're making a few massive assumptions, mainly that they don't care about graphics and responsive controls ... It is possible that a large portion of the Wii user base just cares more about new game-play experiences and/or social gaming then they do about graphics; especially when there was a couple hundred dollar difference in the cost in buying a Wii compared to the other systems. Just because the HD consoles didn’t take advantage of the processing power to create many new experiences (mostly focusing on enhancing established styles of games) doesn’t mean it couldn’t be used for that, and a large HDTV is better suited for social gaming being that you can spit the screen 6 ways and give the player a fairly large and readable screen.

Beyond that, for almost a decade Gameboy owners demonstrated that they "Didn’t care about graphics" by rejecting the countless color handhelds with better graphics that were released to market and they still upgraded to the Gameboy Advance. When the Wii launched many HD console owners claimed that they "Didn't Care" about motion controls, and with how some of them talk about Natal or Move it is obvious that they do now. The videogame market is an odd place where people don't care about something until a product comes around that makes them care.

 

 

Anyways, even if Nintendo did make a more powerful system I doubt they would sell it on (simply) being more powerful. Something that sounds as silly as using an inexpensive projector to display a play-surface on the ground for a Natal/PS-eye like game may make the difference from some gamers looking at camera based games as "Lame" or "Cool"

 



abcdario said:
I dont see any Wii 2 before 2012, i would suggest Dec 2012.

Ah, about the Loss-selling business model, Nintendo i dont remember that interview, but i think the Game Cube at U$199 was not being sold at a lost.

I do remember when the GCN began to fade, Ninty droped its price to U$99 and in some countries they bundled it with Mario Kart and the Zelda Collector´s Edition.

Those times were very hard for Ninty, they even had their first quarter with red numbers for its entire life.

I bought that bundle for €100 lol.



Mazty said:
hsrob said:
Mazty said:

Well you could make the argument against the PS3, apart from the fact the term shovelware came from the junk games produced on mass for the wii...
Yes it is a hypothetical argument, but one rooted in, as i said, surveys which suggest many wii owners do not tend to play on their consoles for an amount of time that a serious gamer would.
Problem is the install base, as I've been saying, may not be interested in another console, because they are content with what the wii offers. Clearly they did not want good graphics (360 and PS3 provide better) or media playback, or even a remote that worked 'well' (180ms lag), so why would they buy a better console if they are happy with dated graphics and a laggy pad?

Yes again this is hypothetical, but not something that should just be dismissed as the above point shows that wii owners have not got a want for high quality, therefore why buy a better Wii?

You are making judgements about the quality of Wii games and assumptions about Wii owners which you can't back up and which I would argue don't even matter.  You may not appreciate many of Wii's offerings and you are entitled to your opinion but this 'quality' doesn't speak to the buying habits of the people who play Wii games or their likelihood of supporting Nintendo's new console.  You are using soft data (surveys?) which suggest that these people don't play their games much but in the end it doesn't matter one bit as long as they buy games, and by extension, hardware.

The only hard data we have is attach rate. You are right that the attach rate doesn't mean much when you take a snapshot but (and you'll have to take my word for this if you are new to the site) the Wii's attach rate has been rising for over 3.5 years which tells us that it's established users and new users are continuing to buy games in significant numbers.  Once again it doesn't matter if they only play each game for 5 minutes, the point is they are willing to hand their hard earned over to Nintendo /andor it's third parties.  So what about the behaviour of these people makes you so sure they won't continue to spend their money on Nintendo in the next generation? 

The only data we have says they have been willing to buy games and continue to buy games, which strongly suggest thats they have so far been happy with the products they have purchased and are willing to spend money.  I'm not saying this guarantees their future loyalty to Nintendo or their gaming habit, but why are you so sure that it doesn't.

 

Well let's look at thte facts of the wii and what a new one could offer:
The wii is technically very dated. The games are graphically dated and AI is not going to be impressive compared to the rest of the market.
The pad response time is about 180ms meaning the owners are not concerned about a responsive pad, nor is it 1:1 without motion +.

What could a new console offer that could entice people who clearly are not bothered about graphics or tech as they have the wii to begin with?

If they wanted cheap gaming they'd have chosen the xbox. If they wanted hardcore games, xbox or PS3. If they wanted state of the art graphics/bluray they'd have gone for the PS3.

So again, what could a new console possibly offer to these people who dont care about graphics, tech or media?

New and innovative games that only Nintendo can offer!! You have big problems it is not about the tech it is about the fun games Nintendo offers and if they buy new games then the will buy a new system to buy more new games. What the hell do you know what new stuff Nintendo will have that will attract them again plus new people? Do you know something we others don’t?

 

Now I don’t care about the shit your talking about the only thing I care about are the Nintendo games and if a 3rd party game comes out that is good I will buy it. The only thing that is gathering dust right now is my 360 as everything is the same there. I think I played with it for one year or so.

 

When a consumer buys something they do not think about what’s in the box they care about the price and what they will get with it and what they can get for it later on. So no they would not buy an Xbox because it is old tech. and your talking like there are no hardcore games on the Wii you can ask a casual and they would know better than you :P



    R.I.P Mr Iwata :'(


Mazty said:
Kenryoku_Maxis said:

'Quality' of a console is entirely based on opinion.  And yours is plain to see.  And while some people may be prone not to like the Wii for its 'lack of graphics' or 'lack of technical specs', its plain to see the majority of people this gen like the Wii for reasons beyond that.

And there's nothing to say a more powerful and better looking successor to the Wii would do worse than the Wii did based on system performance.  Especially if it came out with no compeition.  That's even more backwards thinking.

Ah but there lies my point - if the owners are fine with a console which has dated graphics and slow reacting controls in comparison to the other consoles on the market, what could possibly entice them to buy a new console as clearly an improved machine (better graphics, better controls) are not a concern of theirs?

Current trends indicate that they'll follow the games.