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Should Nintendo launch in 2011-12 starting the next gen with monster power?

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Should Nintendo launch in 2011-12 starting the next gen with monster power?

Launch in 2011- early 12 ... 115 63.89%
 
Launch in 2011, just larg... 42 23.33%
 
Re-release current Wii in 2011, just with HD 23 12.78%
 
Total:180

Mmm, i m watching the latest data of sales and the HD twins are closing distance with the Wii, it may not be that far the Wii 2 if this trend continues like this.

Anyways, the HD twins are trying really hard to survive the Wii flood, they deserve some credit with the games they are receiving this generation.



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Mazty said:
vaio said:
Mazty said:

Really? My point has been that the wii is not for real gamers as it has no genre defying games and the pad is just a gimmick.

Let's see what I put on PAGE 5:

"They may be ahead at the moment, but the market buying the wii will not bother to buy an improved wii as surveys indicate that many wiis are now dust collectors, with serious gamers playing on either the xbox or ps3, resulting in all the hardcore franchises on either the ps3, pc or 360, and not with nintendo."

Don't say I'm digressing because you can't show how serious gamers would play on the wii. Plus why are you going on about wii sales? I'm going on about the potential next nintendo console and how nintendo have lost the real gaming market. Either way you clearly can't answer how the wii is for real gamers as the pad seems to be just a gimmick as its just a light gun and worse for many genres.

Yes you have been disgressing for a while now.

All the questions have been answered by people in this thread before me but you ignored them as you did with my answers so you can keep asking.

All your surveys are pulled out of your ass just like the latency number.

If you are asking if there is more hardcore gamers on the hdconsoles then yes there are, if you are saying that there are none hardcore gamers on the wii then your are very misstaken.

I would like to see more 3rd party core games on the Wii but its hardly needed since Nintendo got that covered in every genre I am interested in except FPS.

 

Did you purposely ignore my main point? My main point was that the wii audience is not hardcore gamers and therefore not a sustainable one if Nintendo realise another wii-like console. People argued the wii is good for gamers. I then said the wii is not good due to the pad latency, which unfortunaly I can't get any figures for so a unsubstainited point this moment in time, and that the wii has no genre defying games at all.

You have claimed the wii is for gamers and has genre defying and intuative development over the PS3 and 360. I asked you how. You have yet to answer. SO either answer or don't bother at all as you seem to be trying to avoid telling me how the wii is for hardcore gamers considering the pad is generally worse for many genres, whilst none of the games have made any  impact on the hardcore gaming industry.

I have ansewered this with an example with fps games but you just ignored it, you still havent proven how the Wiimote is generally worse then a normal controller. So you can start with stop ignoring my answer and prove how its worse.

So either back up your claims and tell me how the wii is for serious gamers, or my original point stands that the wii is not, and therefore nintendo will have to do something very smart to entice the casual gamer to buy their next console as that gamer is not bothered about hardware or game quality.

I am too tired to go back and see the whole argument so why dont you post a quote of my claims I havent answered and I will answer them for you if I still havent as far as I know I have and you just ignored it.

 

While you are at it show me a relevant survey that proves your claim that most wii´s are collecting dust.



Vaio - "Bury me at Milanello"      R.I.P AC Milan

In the 60's, people took acid to make the world weird.
Now the world is weird  and people take Prozac  to make it normal.

If laughing is the best medicine and marijuana makes you laugh

Is marijuana the best medicine?

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."

“If any creator has not played Mario, then they’re probably not a good creator. That’s something I can say with 100 percent confidence. Mario is, for game creators, the development bible.

vaio said:
Mazty said:

Did you purposely ignore my main point? My main point was that the wii audience is not hardcore gamers and therefore not a sustainable one if Nintendo realise another wii-like console. People argued the wii is good for gamers. I then said the wii is not good due to the pad latency, which unfortunaly I can't get any figures for so a unsubstainited point this moment in time, and that the wii has no genre defying games at all.

You have claimed the wii is for gamers and has genre defying and intuative development over the PS3 and 360. I asked you how. You have yet to answer. SO either answer or don't bother at all as you seem to be trying to avoid telling me how the wii is for hardcore gamers considering the pad is generally worse for many genres, whilst none of the games have made any  impact on the hardcore gaming industry.

I have ansewered this with an example with fps games but you just ignored it, you still havent proven how the Wiimote is generally worse then a normal controller. So you can start with stop ignoring my answer and prove how its worse.

So either back up your claims and tell me how the wii is for serious gamers, or my original point stands that the wii is not, and therefore nintendo will have to do something very smart to entice the casual gamer to buy their next console as that gamer is not bothered about hardware or game quality.

I am too tired to go back and see the whole argument so why dont you post a quote of my claims I havent answered and I will answer them for you if I still havent as far as I know I have and you just ignored it.

 

While you are at it show me a relevant survey that proves your claim that most wii´s are collecting dust.

"Wii owners do care about graphics but not at the expense of gameplay" & "whats more important is gameplay innovations and games wich is why Wii is winninig"

I have shown how the wiimote and poor hardware of the wii makes gameplay worse as the AI cannot be nearly as advanced as on the 360 or PS3, and the wiimote gives less control than a pad due to turning (pointer going off screen), less buttons etc. Also in most games graphics are key to making the game more immersive and believable such as any simulation game (sports, racing etc), fps draw distance, RTS' etc.

Plus what gameplay innovations have wii games had on game genres other than "waggle the pad to move up" etc?

Stop digressing and answer your claims from many pages back.



I'd say 2013 (hopefully) with a new gameplay feature that we haven't even thought up. I hope so at least.

Guys, don't bother with Mazty. He's nothing but a troll. I found it amusing that he made fun of someone's "engrish" then had the nerve to complain when someone pointed out a grammatical error. lol



Proud member of the Mega Mario Movement

 

Warrior of Light

Firstly, I'm going to reply to all of you guys in this one post as I'll be saying the same thing.
Secondly, I've already explained that the source of my 180ms claim seems to have gone/moved/been edited, but as Digital Foundary have now a device to measure Wii FPS and latency, I'm sure the answer, whether I'm right or wrong, will come through in thew future.
Thirdly, STOP GOING ON ABOUT THE LATENCY AS IF IT'S THE ONLY THING I'VE MENTIONED - Vaio I've said time and again the inherent problem with the wii is also down to it having done absolutely nothing for games, which you disagree with but have yet to show a genre defying game on the wii.

As for the post I've quoted it just shows the pad latency and not the overall latency which is the actual problem if you hadn't picked up from the DF article about latency and Move. I'll explain as no doubt you'll try to whine over this part. The latency for Move is 22ms, however when yout ake into account all the processing power etc all the way to the display output, the actual latency seems to be closer to 130ms. The article above shows the wiimote latency is about 10ms, BUT there is still lag as mentioned by the author, so the problem is then down to the wii hardware, which I've been going on about this entire time.

To claim that not using your thumbs is a big thing is rubbish - a mouse doesn't use your thumbs, so as I said the idea that the wiimote is revolutionary is bs, and infact just the same as pad vs mouse argument. Plus my point stands that you know very, VERY little about gaming, as you should know that a mouse is far more accuarate than a wiimote, as you can control DPI etc etc in a quality mouse. If you want to see real gamers, just watch a pro playing CS:S, and then try to claim they need a wiimote.

Zarx, you seem to know nothing about everything. The PSP version of LBP is far worse graphics etc, but essentially same gameplay.

Jarrod I've played Twilight Princess for about 10 hours. Horseback fighting was in Ocarina of Time, unless you mean the "duel"/hideously timed attack you have on the bridge which happened a grand total of once when I was playing. The world is empty and linear reguardless of it's size, not to mention the awful graphics. A deeper comabt system? Compared to what? Oblivion? The combat is still exceptionally shallower, and simply repetative. Do I have to mention the seriously annoying black creatures that you have to herd up before killing?
Just compare Twilight Princess to Oblivion as they came out at the time. Now in what way is TW better than Oblivion? Frankly Oblivion was dominant in every way over TP by a hell of a lot. Oh the only thing it doesn't have is a waggle pad, and that's what it is, a waggle pad, as the wii cannot track whole motions (goes out of sync) hence all the movements are "gestures".

VonboySP - So you are telling me that the 72 million sold PS3's and 360's show that graphics and AI cannot be improved anymore or there is no need to improve them? If so then how come Heavy Rain, FF13, MW2 etc etc have sold so much? Oh and how come the 360 and PS3 combined sales are higher than the wii total sales? Doesn't that show the market for good graphics etc is larger than the wii? Nice math on your part....And you can't argue the high wii game sales as the consoles are flogged with the same games pretty much from release, and with little variation once a popular game comes out. As I've said before, its the same as if the 360 was still being flogged with Oblivion or Full Auto. The difference between the wii and 360/Ps3 is that the Wii is going for a different market. You can't say a Micra is aimed at the same market as an Mitsibushi Evolution which is the case here. If you actually were a gamer, you'd realise that AI is still far off from being comparible to a human player, and considering that the HD5000 series has sold over 2 million units, frankly, you are just making up utterly unsubstantiated 'facts'/flat out lies.

welcome back

thanks for agreeing with me that the PSP version of Little Big Planet has the same gamepaly as the PS3 version and as the PSP is far weaker than the Wii the game you used as an example of the evolution of the platforming genre thanks to better tech. And as for your Wii game that transcends it's genre I suggest you look at the latest gamepalay from Metroid: other M it's a third person action adventure/2.5D platformer/FPS.

 

and as for Gears of war changing gaming I think you should look up kill.switch

Heavy rain go look at Shenmue 1 & 2, fahrenheit/Indigo Prophecy and more

Mario sunshine is a GC game not a Wii game and Oblivion was a small scale (but more detailed) Morrowind

It looks like you are the one that knows nothing about gaming



@TheVoxelman on twitter

Check out my hype threads: Cyberpunk, and The Witcher 3!

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BoleroOfFire said:
I'd say 2013 (hopefully) with a new gameplay feature that we haven't even thought up. I hope so at least.

Guys, don't bother with Mazty. He's nothing but a troll. I found it amusing that he made fun of someone's "engrish" then had the nerve to complain when someone pointed out a grammatical error. lol

but I like arguing with him I find funny plus he needs to be informed lol



@TheVoxelman on twitter

Check out my hype threads: Cyberpunk, and The Witcher 3!

zarx said:
BoleroOfFire said:
I'd say 2013 (hopefully) with a new gameplay feature that we haven't even thought up. I hope so at least.

Guys, don't bother with Mazty. He's nothing but a troll. I found it amusing that he made fun of someone's "engrish" then had the nerve to complain when someone pointed out a grammatical error. lol

but I like arguing with him I find funny plus he needs to be informed lol

Well then by all means continue.    lol



Proud member of the Mega Mario Movement

 

Warrior of Light

Mazty said:
vaio said:
Mazty said:

Did you purposely ignore my main point? My main point was that the wii audience is not hardcore gamers and therefore not a sustainable one if Nintendo realise another wii-like console. People argued the wii is good for gamers. I then said the wii is not good due to the pad latency, which unfortunaly I can't get any figures for so a unsubstainited point this moment in time, and that the wii has no genre defying games at all.

You have claimed the wii is for gamers and has genre defying and intuative development over the PS3 and 360. I asked you how. You have yet to answer. SO either answer or don't bother at all as you seem to be trying to avoid telling me how the wii is for hardcore gamers considering the pad is generally worse for many genres, whilst none of the games have made any  impact on the hardcore gaming industry.

I have ansewered this with an example with fps games but you just ignored it, you still havent proven how the Wiimote is generally worse then a normal controller. So you can start with stop ignoring my answer and prove how its worse.

So either back up your claims and tell me how the wii is for serious gamers, or my original point stands that the wii is not, and therefore nintendo will have to do something very smart to entice the casual gamer to buy their next console as that gamer is not bothered about hardware or game quality.

I am too tired to go back and see the whole argument so why dont you post a quote of my claims I havent answered and I will answer them for you if I still havent as far as I know I have and you just ignored it.

 

While you are at it show me a relevant survey that proves your claim that most wii´s are collecting dust.

"Wii owners do care about graphics but not at the expense of gameplay" & "whats more important is gameplay innovations and games wich is why Wii is winninig"

I have answered that but you ignored it and I gave you an example of FPS games here is some more: Driving games is another, Dancing games like Just dance is another gameplay innovation, point and click games, Silent hill games use of the wiimote is another gameplay innovation, tennis games, golf games, baseball games, table tennis games, puzzle games like bloom blox, balance board games, shaune white snowboard game, fitness games.... 

I have shown how the wiimote and poor hardware of the wii makes gameplay worse as the AI cannot be nearly as advanced as on the 360 or PS3, and the wiimote gives less control than a pad due to turning (pointer going off screen), less buttons etc. Also in most games graphics are key to making the game more immersive and believable such as any simulation game (sports, racing etc), fps draw distance, RTS' etc.You havent shown anything but you are claiming alot show me some proof and i will respong to this and also Metroid, RE 4, Call of duty games proves you wrong about the wiimote being worse and the pointer off scren comment, Mariokart shows you how immersive a steering wheel controlling is more immersive then a controller, any golf, tennis game or bowling game, table tennis game shows you how much better simulation becomes with a Wii controller and soon the move controller. Ofcourse AI cant be as good as on 360 or ps3 they are stronger hardware but if it´s programmed well enough you still have a more then good enough AI. Less buttons for the most part is irrelevant s alot of button movements are mapped to motion. Wiimote has 7 buttons commonly used for gaming xbox controller has 8 buttons used for gaming and you can map motion to some actions if done right it´s more immersive then button pushing.

Plus what gameplay innovations have wii games had on game genres other than "waggle the pad to move up" etc?

Stop digressing and answer your claims from many pages back.

Now how about you show some proof to backup your claims  with a relevant survey that most wii´s collect dust or are you just talking out of your ass as you did with the 180ms lag?



Vaio - "Bury me at Milanello"      R.I.P AC Milan

In the 60's, people took acid to make the world weird.
Now the world is weird  and people take Prozac  to make it normal.

If laughing is the best medicine and marijuana makes you laugh

Is marijuana the best medicine?

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."

“If any creator has not played Mario, then they’re probably not a good creator. That’s something I can say with 100 percent confidence. Mario is, for game creators, the development bible.

zarx said:

Firstly, I'm going to reply to all of you guys in this one post as I'll be saying the same thing.
Secondly, I've already explained that the source of my 180ms claim seems to have gone/moved/been edited, but as Digital Foundary have now a device to measure Wii FPS and latency, I'm sure the answer, whether I'm right or wrong, will come through in thew future.
Thirdly, STOP GOING ON ABOUT THE LATENCY AS IF IT'S THE ONLY THING I'VE MENTIONED - Vaio I've said time and again the inherent problem with the wii is also down to it having done absolutely nothing for games, which you disagree with but have yet to show a genre defying game on the wii.

As for the post I've quoted it just shows the pad latency and not the overall latency which is the actual problem if you hadn't picked up from the DF article about latency and Move. I'll explain as no doubt you'll try to whine over this part. The latency for Move is 22ms, however when yout ake into account all the processing power etc all the way to the display output, the actual latency seems to be closer to 130ms. The article above shows the wiimote latency is about 10ms, BUT there is still lag as mentioned by the author, so the problem is then down to the wii hardware, which I've been going on about this entire time.

To claim that not using your thumbs is a big thing is rubbish - a mouse doesn't use your thumbs, so as I said the idea that the wiimote is revolutionary is bs, and infact just the same as pad vs mouse argument. Plus my point stands that you know very, VERY little about gaming, as you should know that a mouse is far more accuarate than a wiimote, as you can control DPI etc etc in a quality mouse. If you want to see real gamers, just watch a pro playing CS:S, and then try to claim they need a wiimote.

Zarx, you seem to know nothing about everything. The PSP version of LBP is far worse graphics etc, but essentially same gameplay.

Jarrod I've played Twilight Princess for about 10 hours. Horseback fighting was in Ocarina of Time, unless you mean the "duel"/hideously timed attack you have on the bridge which happened a grand total of once when I was playing. The world is empty and linear reguardless of it's size, not to mention the awful graphics. A deeper comabt system? Compared to what? Oblivion? The combat is still exceptionally shallower, and simply repetative. Do I have to mention the seriously annoying black creatures that you have to herd up before killing?
Just compare Twilight Princess to Oblivion as they came out at the time. Now in what way is TW better than Oblivion? Frankly Oblivion was dominant in every way over TP by a hell of a lot. Oh the only thing it doesn't have is a waggle pad, and that's what it is, a waggle pad, as the wii cannot track whole motions (goes out of sync) hence all the movements are "gestures".

VonboySP - So you are telling me that the 72 million sold PS3's and 360's show that graphics and AI cannot be improved anymore or there is no need to improve them? If so then how come Heavy Rain, FF13, MW2 etc etc have sold so much? Oh and how come the 360 and PS3 combined sales are higher than the wii total sales? Doesn't that show the market for good graphics etc is larger than the wii? Nice math on your part....And you can't argue the high wii game sales as the consoles are flogged with the same games pretty much from release, and with little variation once a popular game comes out. As I've said before, its the same as if the 360 was still being flogged with Oblivion or Full Auto. The difference between the wii and 360/Ps3 is that the Wii is going for a different market. You can't say a Micra is aimed at the same market as an Mitsibushi Evolution which is the case here. If you actually were a gamer, you'd realise that AI is still far off from being comparible to a human player, and considering that the HD5000 series has sold over 2 million units, frankly, you are just making up utterly unsubstantiated 'facts'/flat out lies.

welcome back

thanks for agreeing with me that the PSP version of Little Big Planet has the same gamepaly as the PS3 version and as the PSP is far weaker than the Wii the game you used as an example of the evolution of the platforming genre thanks to better tech. And as for your Wii game that transcends it's genre I suggest you look at the latest gamepalay from Metroid: other M it's a third person action adventure/2.5D platformer/FPS.

 

and as for Gears of war changing gaming I think you should look up kill.switch

Heavy rain go look at Shenmue 1 & 2, fahrenheit/Indigo Prophecy and more

Mario sunshine is a GC game not a Wii game and Oblivion was a small scale (but more detailed) Morrowind

It looks like you are the one that knows nothing about gaming

Does the PSP version have online play etc? Or co-op?

In what way is Metroid: other M revolutionary??! All it shows is the inherent problem that in lightgun mode movement is limited, and other than that is seems no different from shadow complex, a bloody XBL game.

Kill.Switch may  of had a cover system, but no way near as advanced and flexible as Gears of War, not to mention Kill.Switch had definied stages, bland surroundings etc whereas Gears of War had a good story line, great graphics, great AI (flanks), online play, melee combat, regen health etc. Gears of War basically made the cover system better & not suck.

Shenmue 1 & 2 and Farenheit are average games in comparison to Heavy Rain, which provides an intriguing storyline throughout, superb graphics, multiple endings and so on. Heavy Rain is again a case of finally making the genre work, as what Gears of War did to cover based shooters.

I was talking about Mario Galaxy not sunshine. And Oblivion was far, far different from Morrowind, in some good ways, and some not so good, but made the game overall far better. For example, the spells now had travel time with full hit boxes for the enemy, as well as the fully revamped combat system which wasn't just bashing the right trigger as it was with Morrowind. Plus there was now mounts, the AI wasn't utterly brain dead and the draw distance wasn't two feet which always buggered up an archer in Morrowind. Morrowind did have a greater freedom etc, but the combat was made to finally work in Oblivion.

Unfortuanly it looks like you haven't played the games you speak of. Not to mention, instead of trying to bash the games I give (forgot about Resistance 2, MGS4, Killzone 2, Mirrors Edge etc by the way) you gave no wii game that is revolutionary, so please, give me a few wii games which aren't just light gun games or waggle pad to do "X".



Mazty said:
zarx said:

Firstly, I'm going to reply to all of you guys in this one post as I'll be saying the same thing.
Secondly, I've already explained that the source of my 180ms claim seems to have gone/moved/been edited, but as Digital Foundary have now a device to measure Wii FPS and latency, I'm sure the answer, whether I'm right or wrong, will come through in thew future.
Thirdly, STOP GOING ON ABOUT THE LATENCY AS IF IT'S THE ONLY THING I'VE MENTIONED - Vaio I've said time and again the inherent problem with the wii is also down to it having done absolutely nothing for games, which you disagree with but have yet to show a genre defying game on the wii.

As for the post I've quoted it just shows the pad latency and not the overall latency which is the actual problem if you hadn't picked up from the DF article about latency and Move. I'll explain as no doubt you'll try to whine over this part. The latency for Move is 22ms, however when yout ake into account all the processing power etc all the way to the display output, the actual latency seems to be closer to 130ms. The article above shows the wiimote latency is about 10ms, BUT there is still lag as mentioned by the author, so the problem is then down to the wii hardware, which I've been going on about this entire time.

To claim that not using your thumbs is a big thing is rubbish - a mouse doesn't use your thumbs, so as I said the idea that the wiimote is revolutionary is bs, and infact just the same as pad vs mouse argument. Plus my point stands that you know very, VERY little about gaming, as you should know that a mouse is far more accuarate than a wiimote, as you can control DPI etc etc in a quality mouse. If you want to see real gamers, just watch a pro playing CS:S, and then try to claim they need a wiimote.

Zarx, you seem to know nothing about everything. The PSP version of LBP is far worse graphics etc, but essentially same gameplay.

Jarrod I've played Twilight Princess for about 10 hours. Horseback fighting was in Ocarina of Time, unless you mean the "duel"/hideously timed attack you have on the bridge which happened a grand total of once when I was playing. The world is empty and linear reguardless of it's size, not to mention the awful graphics. A deeper comabt system? Compared to what? Oblivion? The combat is still exceptionally shallower, and simply repetative. Do I have to mention the seriously annoying black creatures that you have to herd up before killing?
Just compare Twilight Princess to Oblivion as they came out at the time. Now in what way is TW better than Oblivion? Frankly Oblivion was dominant in every way over TP by a hell of a lot. Oh the only thing it doesn't have is a waggle pad, and that's what it is, a waggle pad, as the wii cannot track whole motions (goes out of sync) hence all the movements are "gestures".

VonboySP - So you are telling me that the 72 million sold PS3's and 360's show that graphics and AI cannot be improved anymore or there is no need to improve them? If so then how come Heavy Rain, FF13, MW2 etc etc have sold so much? Oh and how come the 360 and PS3 combined sales are higher than the wii total sales? Doesn't that show the market for good graphics etc is larger than the wii? Nice math on your part....And you can't argue the high wii game sales as the consoles are flogged with the same games pretty much from release, and with little variation once a popular game comes out. As I've said before, its the same as if the 360 was still being flogged with Oblivion or Full Auto. The difference between the wii and 360/Ps3 is that the Wii is going for a different market. You can't say a Micra is aimed at the same market as an Mitsibushi Evolution which is the case here. If you actually were a gamer, you'd realise that AI is still far off from being comparible to a human player, and considering that the HD5000 series has sold over 2 million units, frankly, you are just making up utterly unsubstantiated 'facts'/flat out lies.

welcome back

thanks for agreeing with me that the PSP version of Little Big Planet has the same gamepaly as the PS3 version and as the PSP is far weaker than the Wii the game you used as an example of the evolution of the platforming genre thanks to better tech. And as for your Wii game that transcends it's genre I suggest you look at the latest gamepalay from Metroid: other M it's a third person action adventure/2.5D platformer/FPS.

 

and as for Gears of war changing gaming I think you should look up kill.switch

Heavy rain go look at Shenmue 1 & 2, fahrenheit/Indigo Prophecy and more

Mario sunshine is a GC game not a Wii game and Oblivion was a small scale (but more detailed) Morrowind

It looks like you are the one that knows nothing about gaming

Does the PSP version have online play etc? Or co-op?

In what way is Metroid: other M revolutionary??! All it shows is the inherent problem that in lightgun mode movement is limited, and other than that is seems no different from shadow complex, a bloody XBL game.

Kill.Switch may  of had a cover system, but no way near as advanced and flexible as Gears of War, not to mention Kill.Switch had definied stages, bland surroundings etc whereas Gears of War had a good story line, great graphics, great AI (flanks), online play, melee combat, regen health etc. Gears of War basically made the cover system better & not suck.

Shenmue 1 & 2 and Farenheit are average games in comparison to Heavy Rain, which provides an intriguing storyline throughout, superb graphics, multiple endings and so on. Heavy Rain is again a case of finally making the genre work, as what Gears of War did to cover based shooters.

I was talking about Mario Galaxy not sunshine. And Oblivion was far, far different from Morrowind, in some good ways, and some not so good, but made the game overall far better. For example, the spells now had travel time with full hit boxes for the enemy, as well as the fully revamped combat system which wasn't just bashing the right trigger as it was with Morrowind. Plus there was now mounts, the AI wasn't utterly brain dead and the draw distance wasn't two feet which always buggered up an archer in Morrowind. Morrowind did have a greater freedom etc, but the combat was made to finally work in Oblivion.

Unfortuanly it looks like you haven't played the games you speak of. Not to mention, instead of trying to bash the games I give (forgot about Resistance 2, MGS4, Killzone 2, Mirrors Edge etc by the way) you gave no wii game that is revolutionary, so please, give me a few wii games which aren't just light gun games or waggle pad to do "X".

have you seen the latest trailer for metroid? it is a lot more than a simple light gun/platformer lol and I havent played many Wii games as I don't own one myself, But what I am trying to argue it is not the hardware that is stopping games being innovative or making them innovative it is the developers. Yes you can say that Gears of War and Heavy rain are better than what games came before but that is just polish and natural evolution, it's much like saying Red Steal 2 is an innovative because it does first person shooter/slasher a lot better than the first. But I am not here to argue that Wii games are innovative I am here to argue that hardware doesn't make a game revolutionary.

As for Morrowind it sounds like you played the xbox version as I didn't have problems with view distance and most spells did have travel time etc. But I guess thats what you get when you try to port a PC game onto consoles even tho they did a lot to streamline the experiance from 1 & 2 and then they did more to consolise it with oblivion. 

you say that scribblenauts is a far more innovative game than MGS4 or Resistance 2 (just because I don't own a game doesn't mean I haven't played it) they are both sequels that offer a more refined versions of what came before hardly revolutionary. Reveolutionary games are often not very good look at scribblenauts Kill.Switch shenmue etc they are the revolutionary games but oftem the games that get the creadit are the ones that refine the concepts that made the older games revolutionary, that is not a revolution it is a evolutionary step. Games like MGS4 etc are better because developers made them that way yes the better hardware made that possible in some regards but a lot of what made those games great wasn't the graphics but the way the developers used the technology to enhance the game, MGS4 could have been made for the Wii it wouldn't have looked as good and maybe the levels would have been smaller and maybe less advanced physics oh and of course it would have been on a few DVDs, but the story would still be there and most (if not all) of the gameplay would be intact or they could have tacked on Wii controls to try and make it more "immersive" or whatever but at heart it would be the same game. Little big planet PSP could have had online co-op etc if the developers really wanted it to be there but obviously they didn't feel like it would work on the PSP or they didn't feel it was necessary. 



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