pointing instead of using your thumbs is not a big change?

If you were serious gamer you would want to be able to kill as many as possible as fast as possible as accurate as possible and the wiimote ptovides just that, I guess you are not a serious gamer and only a graphics whore then?

Also if youre having big problems with lag with your wiiremote then there is something else that is interfering with your wii mote (if you have one?).

This guy had problems too and decided to do tests:

since were all running into a dead end rut, i'll bring up something else for mazty.

when your increasing graphics, ai, and lowering latency, you'll hit a point where it's already good enough. if you keep going further, your overshooting the market. this is what the ps3 and the 360 have done. they raised prices so they could push for more powerful hardware, when most people were already content with last generation. they don't want the system because they have to pay more for something they don't particularly want.

the wii is so successful right now because it is not overshooting the market. it's offering just enough hardware for most people, with a low price and and good games.

i'm sorry you think the wii sucks, you just happen to be an upmarket customer. you're like a car driver that will except nothing less then a ferrari. please don't sink as low as to tell all of us we aren't gamers.

1) I've never claimed anyone mentioning Wii lag is lying.  Please, you've posted enough bullshit in this thread, try to keep from shoveling it in my mouth.

2) You're still stalling and diverting.  We've never gotten a source for your fabricated 180ms figure.  Again, put up or shut up.

As for Twilight Princess, well it seems fairly obvious you've never touched the game.  Besides the basic interface differences (which only really come into play significantly for ranged weapons/aiming), TP's main world is over four as large, with a more refined and much deeper combat engine, has underwater combat/exploration, more sidequests, an entire secondary form, horseback combat, a much greater environment & dungeon diversity, completely new subweapons/items (magnetic boots, ball & chain, spinner, double hookshot, etc)... and that's all just gameplay and world design. The visual upgrade is basically equal to the bump from KZ1 to KZ2 frankly.

Can you lay out some of the fundamental design differences between KZ1 and KZ2?  I try not to play B-grade shooters, so I've never touched either...

All his arguments have been put to rest and questions answered but he just ignores them and doesnt accept any other answer then the ones he allready thinks are the right ones.

About the 180ms figure look 2 posts above yours i found someone that actually tested.

damn he got banned without responding to my posts oh well, btw metroid: other M looks to be one of the most invovative action games in a long time it's combination of 2.5D platformer FPS and 3rd person action adventure looks really good, if you havn't seen the trailer I recommend checking it out.

Oh and little big planet can work on the PSP a device that is much weaker than the Wii lol.

Firstly, I'm going to reply to all of you guys in this one post as I'll be saying the same thing.
Secondly, I've already explained that the source of my 180ms claim seems to have gone/moved/been edited, but as Digital Foundary have now a device to measure Wii FPS and latency, I'm sure the answer, whether I'm right or wrong, will come through in thew future.
Thirdly, STOP GOING ON ABOUT THE LATENCY AS IF IT'S THE ONLY THING I'VE MENTIONED - Vaio I've said time and again the inherent problem with the wii is also down to it having done absolutely nothing for games, which you disagree with but have yet to show a genre defying game on the wii.

As for the post I've quoted it just shows the pad latency and not the overall latency which is the actual problem if you hadn't picked up from the DF article about latency and Move. I'll explain as no doubt you'll try to whine over this part. The latency for Move is 22ms, however when yout ake into account all the processing power etc all the way to the display output, the actual latency seems to be closer to 130ms. The article above shows the wiimote latency is about 10ms, BUT there is still lag as mentioned by the author, so the problem is then down to the wii hardware, which I've been going on about this entire time.

To claim that not using your thumbs is a big thing is rubbish - a mouse doesn't use your thumbs, so as I said the idea that the wiimote is revolutionary is bs, and infact just the same as pad vs mouse argument. Plus my point stands that you know very, VERY little about gaming, as you should know that a mouse is far more accuarate than a wiimote, as you can control DPI etc etc in a quality mouse. If you want to see real gamers, just watch a pro playing CS:S, and then try to claim they need a wiimote.

Zarx, you seem to know nothing about everything. The PSP version of LBP is far worse graphics etc, but essentially same gameplay.

Jarrod I've played Twilight Princess for about 10 hours. Horseback fighting was in Ocarina of Time, unless you mean the "duel"/hideously timed attack you have on the bridge which happened a grand total of once when I was playing. The world is empty and linear reguardless of it's size, not to mention the awful graphics. A deeper comabt system? Compared to what? Oblivion? The combat is still exceptionally shallower, and simply repetative. Do I have to mention the seriously annoying black creatures that you have to herd up before killing?
Just compare Twilight Princess to Oblivion as they came out at the time. Now in what way is TW better than Oblivion? Frankly Oblivion was dominant in every way over TP by a hell of a lot. Oh the only thing it doesn't have is a waggle pad, and that's what it is, a waggle pad, as the wii cannot track whole motions (goes out of sync) hence all the movements are "gestures".

VonboySP - So you are telling me that the 72 million sold PS3's and 360's show that graphics and AI cannot be improved anymore or there is no need to improve them? If so then how come Heavy Rain, FF13, MW2 etc etc have sold so much? Oh and how come the 360 and PS3 combined sales are higher than the wii total sales? Doesn't that show the market for good graphics etc is larger than the wii? Nice math on your part....And you can't argue the high wii game sales as the consoles are flogged with the same games pretty much from release, and with little variation once a popular game comes out. As I've said before, its the same as if the 360 was still being flogged with Oblivion or Full Auto. The difference between the wii and 360/Ps3 is that the Wii is going for a different market. You can't say a Micra is aimed at the same market as an Mitsibushi Evolution which is the case here. If you actually were a gamer, you'd realise that AI is still far off from being comparible to a human player, and considering that the HD5000 series has sold over 2 million units, frankly, you are just making up utterly unsubstantiated 'facts'/flat out lies.

just keep on moving goalposts Mazty at some point they will have to come true so you can sleep at night restless.

Were you not the one who said "Wii owners do care about graphics but not at the expense of gameplay" & "whats more important is gameplay innovations and games wich is why Wii is winninig"

I have shown you that this is untrue as the gameplay of wii games is almost enitrely dated. Give me one genre defying game of the wii. Oh what's that, you can't? What's that? The wiimote is nothing more inntuative then any other pad?

My whole point hasn't been about the wii latency so either expand you claims of all these innovations you claim the wii has made or is your entire argument just "TEH WII IS FUNZ!"?

Improving gameplay by:

Pointing instead of thumbcontrolls

higher rate of killing through ir

higher accuracy through ir

higher aim controll speed through ir

From now on FPS will be played with pointing devices on both PS3 and Wii.

Your point about the wii latency has been proven an utter lie so try agian theburden of proof is not on me its on you now I have provided proof and eamples and you have provided nothing but:

I am a graphics whore wii suuuckksss.

And thats only for FPS games i wont bother doing more because you are not a gamer since you dont approve of theese improvments. Anything that improves your gaming accuracy, killstreak and controlling speed would be embrased by a real gamer and you have clearly shown that you are a graphics whore pulling lag number out of your ass and not a real gamer.

Oh and keep moving the goalpost by saying this doesnt count somehow just to show me how much of a graphic whore instead of gamer you are.

1) Stupid point - the mouse and keyboard are thumbless

2) For on-rail shooters, so again, stupid to mention as light guns have been doing the same thing for decades.

3) Again, that is something lightguns have been doing

4)You've said the same thing twice as higher killer rate is due to higher accuracy and aim controll, so congrats for pointing out how the wiimote is effectively a light gun.

5) And what if you want to, I don't know, side step? The wii mote is too basic to be implemented in an effective shooter such as Halo as the control over your character is too little, something which could cause an issue for Move as well

6)How has it been proven a lie??!?! The article you posted shows that there IS A LATENCY PROBLEM, but it seems to be to do with the hardware of the wii rather than the remote. For **** sake read the last line of that article.

So please tell me how the wii has been genre defining. All you have done is shown how the wiimote can be used as a light gun, and I know after playing House of the Dead 3 on the wii yesterday. It sounds like you haven't played an FPS since Doom.

Clearly you've never played a game outside of the Nintendo franchise for years, so your view is blinkered. Please give me a game from the wii which has redefined a genre, or even created a new one (Gears of War, Heavy Rain, Uncharted 2 etc).