So, with the healthcare bill passed, the federal government has now told every American they need health insurance. Not only does this mean more customers for the insurance industry, but the IRS is going to monitor every American each month, and if that American does not have insurance, they will fine that individual and send the insurance company a check.

Victory for the insurance companies! For the American people.. well.. let's not talk about that.

This is what change looks like, okay?

This is a victory for common sense, alright?

Okay?

Woo!

/is crying inside

OT: congratulations to the health insurance companies... I'm sure they are quite elated. Thank you Mafoo, for at times, trying to inform people of things that they need to know, but will lead me into this mini-rant that I think many can understand.


But as a mini-rant, you know when it isn't enough for politicians to fuck with people; pundits, media, and even random bloggers and forum posters jump on the bandwagon as well. This is just something that has extremely pissed me off about the health care debate in general. Instead of people actually arguing what is better for America's health care system and nation in general, they've used every form of propaganda and illogical arguments in the book. And yet we praise those people and act as if they have stated the gospel. No wonder the rest of the world looks down upon us.

That is what has truly pissed me off about this entire health care debate. Watching these TV pundits, or bloggers, or whatever. That's what has been really fucking over America recently. And personally, I blame the internet because any average person that knows how to use rhetoric can come off sounding like someone that knows things when they really don't. Of course with our education system, how are they supposed to differentiate the bullshit from the actual worthwhile commentary. And that is why over the last 10-15 years, America has said goodbye to logic, to reason, to intellectualism, and therefore to their own personal freedoms.

Thank you people for working on taking that away from people for your own personal gain. I sure as hell hope you are proud of yourselves. Or maybe I should blame the people for not caring about their own personal beliefs, opinions, or well-being as they sit back there and let these people take it. No I'll blame both because neither care about my freedom. Neither care about my constitutional rights. Does no one care about their natural rights anymore, or to rephrase, does no one care for other people's rights.

That's what really the most depressing about the events that have happened since this health care debate. Everybody is arguing freedom and constitutional rights, but no one actually cares about them. I just guess it is because no one is smart enough to know what they are and how to defend them. How do they know they are getting screwed by these people, when no one is informing them what they are doing.

Alright. I planned to lurk more but I have to ask for clarification.

Who here believes in death panels?

Depends on what context.  If it has to deal with keeping some one who has a chance to live but deciding based on money then no.  If it has to do deal with keeping someone alive who has no chance of living and deciding based on money, then I'm open to discussion.  The value of someone's life can't be put in monetary terms, something I know the insurance companies don't understand and I guess I doubt the government would understand either.  But if there is no chance for these people to live, there discussion needs to start wiith the patient's family and doctor and then of course the insurer.  Might sound a little cold, but we need to be reasonable.  Although, if the patient's family wants to continue in those situations with their own money, then of course that is their own personal freedom they have.

But if you have a specific case you would like to discuss, obviously this is more of a question on a case by case analysis, rather than a general one.  I mean this is people we are talking about of course, not just objects.  There are moral implications for all of this.

ALRIGHT FOR STEALTH INSURANCE BAILOUT!!! I'm moving to iceland where they gave a big middle finger to the banksters and are now trying to be the haven for free speech and information.

This kind of thing is easy to get around with State laws, and I know at least one State has already banned mandatory healthcare insurance(Virginia iirc), and I'm sure more will follow.

so, like a friend of mine said : it is a good news for industry and a bad one for the people ?

but, is it not better to have everybody protected (innocent question) ?

EDIT : and what happen to people that cant pay ? because I assume this is the BIG problem here : the poor people, right ?

Well, nice job on the cherry picking there Mafoo. Yes, that is all the bill does is costs people money and makes people pay for it and the IRS will be looking over your shoulder. It's just a way to make more money for teh evil gubmint! Edit: For the record I am against charging people if they opt to not have coverage. But if they opt to not have coverage, they don't get coverage. It's all out of pocket for them.