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Forums - Website Topics - Why Ad Blocking is devastating to the sites you love

llewdebkram said:

I'd like to ask everyone that now uses adblocker if before they used it they were getting virus and malicious code warnings from their antivirus, or indeed like me something was installed without them even clicking on anything?

I'd also like to know from people who don't use any adblocker whether or not they have had any warnings within the last few months or been infected due to ths site?

It's fair enough if you feel the site is losing money because of ad blocker but if a user gets malicious code from your site are you prepared to pay for the problem to be fixed if that user is inexperienced in dealing with such problems?

With the restaurant analogy, it's true I wouldnt expect free food but if the stick something in the food that should be there, I'm going to ask for a refund and/or compensation!

I don't use an adblocker and haven't had any problems with this site.



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rendo said:
thekitchensink said:
STEKSTAV said:
Dont get me wrong, im looking at you thekitchensink, i dont mind if you shut out your users to turn a profit. Profit is the only thing that matters. As i said a few post back, if you feel that shutting down X amount of users in order to turn a profit, than fine by me, go ahead.

The issue here is that under no circumstances do you go out and tell your "share holders" that its their fault that your company is in the red. And that they're theifs for using the companys water cooler.

Um... if shareholders started stealing from my company, which I've already proven is equivalent to this situation in the post that you decided not to try to rebut, then damn straight I'd tell them that it's their fault.

 

Good day to you, sir.

However it isn't stealing.  Not by a stretch of ANY imagination is it stealing.

Of course not. It's more like going to a private school and not paying for it.



 

Double post.

 



pearljammer said:
ioi said:
pearljammer said:

I hate to quote myself but the fact that this wasn't really addressed is somewhat worrisome to me as a member of this community.

Am I right to believe that the community manager, of all people, thinks of many of his members as thieves?

Again, ioi, I empathize with you here and very much agree with you. However, to go as far as calling people thieves for something that would likely be better referred to as non-contributers or simply ungrateful (once made aware, of course) is actually quite alarming.

I don't recall (without reading back through every one of my posts) calling anybody a thief, at what point did I make a direct accusation like that?

The original article stated that using the sites resources while blocking ads is analogous to eating in a restaurant and not paying for it which I said was a reasonable analogy. I also said that many users aren't aware of how this works which was the whole point for posting the article to begin with.

Please show me where I called people thieves!!

Whoa there. I'm referring to thekitchensink. Perhaps I should've made that clearer. I was attempting to do so in the least confrontational manner as possible. In my first post, I actually applauded your approach to this. I'm in agreement with you.

I apologize for the mixup there. I hadn't meant to make it seem as if I were referring to you. I will edit it.

However, I still very much mean what I had said. Only now, I hope it is a bit clearer.

 



Considering the ads on this site are not only annoying, but often block the content (posters text, articles, other images), frozen my internet browser on numerous occasions and I have personally gotten a Trojan from an ad on this site, should I really listen to this article?

Hmm...



Six upcoming games you should look into:

 

  

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ioi said:

Nobody is asking you to look at the ads, I'm saying that technically you don't have the right to block them from showing (even though you can).

I think this is where you are wrong, ioi. I am not going to discuss whether or not it is moral or immoral to block ads on a website you visit, but technically, you put your content out in the open, into the public, on the internet.

There is no access restriction, so anyone can access the data on your site through any interpreter they'd like, if they want to view your website through a text-only browser, they can, if they want to load the website in a normal modern browser but without pictures, they can, and if they want to block ads, they can.

You cannot legally enforce anyone to view your website in this way or that way, you put it out into the public, whether each user wants to give you anything in return for this service is entirely up to each user (fortunately/unfortunately).

It's sort of like watching TV on the open airwaves, if the user turns to another channel every time there is a commercial break, he is perfectly allowed to do so, and even though it cannot be monitored in the same way, fundamentally it is the same thing.

The nature of advertising will always be that the user can choose whether he wants to consume the ads. It is frustrating for anyone trying to make a business on ad revenue, of course, but you cannot just say "I put this website out in the open, but you can only view it on my terms". That's not how it works.

 



ioi said:
Well it's not really an equivalent - the equivalent would be to continue to go back but not pay for the food... that's the critical difference here.

If I go to a restaurant and there is a problem with the food that's a major problem because that's what they sell, food and probably drink.

Therefore I have no reason to go back for food if for some reason I dislike it or it has caused me illness in the past.

I might however buy a drink there providing I felt the staff were courteous and considerate when my original food problem occured.

 

There is  nothing wrong with the content on this site that you provide which is what I come here for, and because of this I have no reason to stop visiting. (this is my drink)

But because the ads (my food) have caused me problems in the past I do not wish to consume them.

Unfortunately for you there is no money to be made from the 'drink' as it is essentially and currently legally free and all your income is from the 'food', which I have had problems with.

 

If however in a year or so on I hear from other customers that the restaurant has really put an effort in to improve their food I might be persuaded to try it again, which is why I asked if there were still problems here.

 

 



ioi said:
STEKSTAV said:

Obviously the current business model dosent work, why else would you have to change the terms of use? If it was a working business model, you'd be able to send your people to E3. Could you point me in the direction to any free sites on the internet that block users from visiting their site, service based sites, not products? It just dosent make sense to me that any of those would exsist, but you might have more info on that matter?

No you dont offer a solution where we dont have to pay money, you've agreed to put ads on your site so that you can make money off of page views. Theres a difference. You've taken steps to try and cut down on costs by allowing ads to provide you with money. But obviously these ads is annoying to a big enough amount of users for you guys to start pointing fingers and blaming your community. So, A) Are the people annoyed by your service forcing ads on them wrong.. or B) might it be that you're useing the wrong kind of ads in a forceful way?

For the love of god, stop saying. Its YOUR FAULT. BEND OVER OR GTFO!

This is might be your first and only business(?), if so, i get that not all know exactly how to implement a working business model right off the bat. But blaming your community, your income, for not producing enough income just because you've increased your cost elsewhere, is just plain wrong.

Ok, you're getting pretty close to a ban now since you are making things personal.

There is no problem with the business model, we are taking 20+ people to E3 this year and the site is growing at a phenomenal rate.

This is an issue of principal and people thinking they can have a free ride, that it is their right to be able to block ads and continue to use the site and I'm explaining that it isn't. It's something we haven't clamped down on yet but it is something that VGChartz (and other sites like Ars) are obviously starting to look at. I posted the article for general interest more than anything else but when people start telling me that they can do what they want and if they want to view the site and block ads it is their right to do so then I'm going to correct them.

As for your own posts, please don't come in here telling me how to run a business!!!

How am i personal?

Im talking about this as a business model in general. Dont get so upset (this is exactly my point though). I like this site, i dont block all form of ads and i contribute to the expansion of this site by spreading the word. No need to take the internet so serious, im not trying to sit on some high horse and tell you how to run your business. But rather trying to discuss why You are making people upset, the same people who makes this site prosper. I mean, its not like this thread has 300+ posts of people saying "Lovely, great idea".

Well if you're able to have a paid staff, and send 20+ people to E3 you're obviously making money off of your advertisment. And life is good. Then why would you as the president of this site go out and publicly say that your users are stealing your money, that their thiefs and dont have the fundamental right to block ads. Just for the sake of geting a rise out of people? Stuff like that should be behind closed doors.

And if you later feel like the current situation dosent work, and the reason being adblockers, then force out the people who block ads. Like i said from the first post, my main issue was the attitude and in the way you approached the topic. I mean, i should be able to disagree with your views on things without having !!!! thrown in my face and threats of bans? I've been nothing but civil, apart from that "for the love of god.." part maybe.

So, the fundamental issue of this whole 300+ thread is, as you said, a discussion on principals. But since its not illegal in anyway, i dont see how one can demand that people should act and think a certain way for the benefit of someone else. But if you want to change the rules of membership to "watch ads or get out" than its absolutly in your right to do so. But keep it behind closed doors and dont lash out at the people who makes this site grow.

As for the last part in your reply. Im not telling you how to run your business. Ive even written replys on how to view this from VGC perspective. You seem to take this whole thing too personal.. and if you feel that ive crossed some sort of line, im sorry. I just don't see what i've done wrong tbh?



ioi said:
epicurean said:


I had a malware attack just today, but I live in the US where it appears to be much worse....

I'm looking into what you sent me but I'm not able to replicate it or find a source at the moment. Are you positive that it came from VGChartz?


Unfortunately, yeah.  I didn't have any other sites open, was viewing one thread, and opened another thread in a new tab, and that's when it came up.  Added to the fact that its the exact same page that came up on a different computer on a different network from earlier in the week... (If you can think of another way this could happen, I suppose I can't say with 100% certainty it came from vgchartz, but it seems very, very, very likely.)

Edit:  I just realized I never said in my email or message - I run a 64-bit OS and IE.  I don't think that matters but trying to give as much info as possible. /Edit

That being said, I came right back and haven't experienced the issue again.  And I had no problems for the 4 or 5 days in between attacks. 

If this helps - I run microsoft security essentials.  It caught it immediately (and a second time when I told it to "restore previous windows" after I killed the process and it came up again).  I have the history for what it caught:

 

 

Trojan Downloader:JS/Renos  Alert Level: Severe  Date: 3/6/2010 10:00AM  Action Taken: Removed

Category:  Trojan Downloader

Description:  This program displays deceptive product messages

Recommendation:  Remove this software immediately

Microsoft Security Essentials detected programs that may compromise your privacy or damage your computer. You can still access the files that these programs use without removing them (not recommended). To access these files, select the 'Allow' action and click 'Apply actions'. If this option is not available, log on as administrator or ask the local administrator for help.

Remove this software immediately.
This program displays deceptive product messages.
Trojan Downloader 

 



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thekitchensink said:
STEKSTAV said:
Dont get me wrong, im looking at you thekitchensink, i dont mind if you shut out your users to turn a profit. Profit is the only thing that matters. As i said a few post back, if you feel that shutting down X amount of users in order to turn a profit, than fine by me, go ahead.

The issue here is that under no circumstances do you go out and tell your "share holders" that its their fault that your company is in the red. And that they're theifs for using the companys water cooler.

Um... if shareholders started stealing from my company, which I've already proven is equivalent to this situation in the post that you decided not to try to rebut, then damn straight I'd tell them that it's their fault.

 

Good day to you, sir.

If a company provides you with water coolers for the sake of making your workers happy and the working enviorment a good one, and 4 years later the CEO of that company gathers all his workers at the family picnic and goes - "if you dont start paying for the water i'll fire you!" - you dont see a problem in that approach? Wouldn't been better to just throw out the water coolers an buy vending machines?

In the first situation 10 times out of 10 your workers are going to start talking trash about the company, drink water anyway, search for a new job etc. In the second situation 10 times out of 10 your workers would go "ooh sweet... snacks!"