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Forums - Sony Discussion - Heavy Rain - The console equivalent to point-and-click

 

    It's not surprising that a playthrough in which you input almost nothing gives you the least feeling that you're affecting the story -- because no one actually plays a game that way, that would be the least tested/polished type of playthrough.

    I think you're just looking for something in the game which isn't there, Stephen.  Or at least, it isn't the main focus of the game. 

 

Take a look at this article on Kotaku, by the consistently awesome Leigh Alexander:

http://kotaku.com/5479966/why-we-play-games-and-why-we-grumble-about-them?skyline=true&s=i

 

Basically, it sounds like you're looking for a game that lets you break the rules and mess with the overall structure of the game as much as possible.  You would fit into the above article's third category of what you're looking for in a game, in this case at least. 

 

As a gamer who usually is most engaged by storytelling and exploration in games, I really enjoyed Heavy Rain.  I think this is because the game managed to make me feel like I was making the choices in the characters' shoes, and then gave me choices which I would find difficult/interesting/horrifying in my own life.  It doesn't matter to me whether or not having a certain body part, for example, affects the game by allowing a character to take some action which changes the course of the plot and leads to a completely different ending.  What matters to me is that the game made me think about the choice as I was making it with an immediacy and agency which wouldn't have been possible in a movie or book.  As Riachu said, while that choice and many others have a rubberband structure in terms of how they affect the overall flow of the game, often only having aesthetic effects on the rest of the game, they leave lasting emtional impressions.  It's the emotional payoff that I think the game is going for, not the "we just blew your mind, look how structurally malleable this piece of entertainment is" moment that you would get by testing the game out in every possible playthrough, and seeing more branching plotlines than any other game ever made.

 

Anyway, just some thoughts.



 

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Alic0004 said:

 

    It's not surprising that a playthrough in which you input almost nothing gives you the least feeling that you're affecting the story -- because no one actually plays a game that way, that would be the least tested/polished type of playthrough.

    I think you're just looking for something in the game which isn't there, Stephen.  Or at least, it isn't the main focus of the game. 

 

Take a look at this article on Kotaku, by the consistently awesome Leigh Alexander:

http://kotaku.com/5479966/why-we-play-games-and-why-we-grumble-about-them?skyline=true&s=i

 

Basically, it sounds like you're looking for a game that lets you break the rules and mess with the overall structure of the game as much as possible.  You would fit into the above article's third category of what you're looking for in a game, in this case at least. 

 

As a gamer who usually is most engaged by storytelling and exploration in games, I really enjoyed Heavy Rain.  I think this is because the game managed to make me feel like I was making the choices in the characters' shoes, and then gave me choices which I would find difficult/interesting/horrifying in my own life.  It doesn't matter to me whether or not having a certain body part, for example, affects the game by allowing a character to take some action which changes the course of the plot and leads to a completely different ending.  What matters to me is that the game made me think about the choice as I was making it with an immediacy and agency which wouldn't have been possible in a movie or book.  As Riachu said, while that choice and many others have a rubberband structure in terms of how they affect the overall flow of the game, often only having aesthetic effects on the rest of the game, they leave lasting emtional impressions.  It's the emotional payoff that I think the game is going for, not the "we just blew your mind, look how structurally malleable this piece of entertainment is" moment that you would get by testing the game out in every possible playthrough, and seeing more branching plotlines than any other game ever made.

 

Anyway, just some thoughts.


Not sure you quite get what I'm doing with that playthrough....  It's not that I'm trying to break the game; I'm trying to measure how much your decisions and the QTE's really effect things...  A big part of what was great in the initial playthrough was the tension, worried that ANYTHING I did could have drastic repurcussions...  My heart was pounding at times!!

So, on this playthrough, I set the controller down to see what happened when I did nothing.  It ws pretty nerve wracking, as we really AREN'T wired to play games like that...  but as the story unfolded with little more than the occasional flick of a stick or walking accross a room, I saw how pointless any of the game's "interactions" were:

****SPOILERS****

Troy still runs away, no effect on the story; Maddison gets her throat slit maybe 30 seconds sooner, no effect on the story (it was a dream, so *shrugs*); you can't fail the suicide baby, so you are just forced to do it right to continue...  you can't fail ANY of Scott's scenes, because he HAS to make it to the end, so nothing you do with him matters at all because it's just filler...  Even Lauren's death (let her drown, you can't drown yourself, and why would you save her?  Let yourself get shot a few times at the mansion, and you just leave...  like it was a hassle) just swaps one 30 second epilogue for another; fail all the trials, and you can still figure out the killer with Maddison and Jayden and the end plays out the same as if you passed them all; walk away from the crime scene the minute you get there with no clues, and you can still have Maddison, who has never met Jayden, call him and tell him where the killer is and the end plays out the same;  ignore the controller, and Jayden continues to succesfully  talk down Nathanial without any input from you, and whether you shot him or not, the only impact on teh story is a four sentence discussion with Blake where, either way, he still thinks you're a dickhead (for shooting him and feelign bad, or for not shooting him); kill Jayden and get arrested and Maddison has Jayden's rooftop fight (with some slight changes) with the killer instead with the same drop him or save him choice (not much of one, since when you save him, he attacks you, and you cause him to fall back off again the same way) for the trophy (<-- pretty sure that's how I did it) barely making any difference in the story....

Like Riachu said: rubberband structure...  You're given the illusion of choice and consequences, but 70% of the game is going to continue on without any need of input from you, another 10% only changes minor details; and the last 10% kills one of the characters, giving you one of 6 different cut scenes at the end, none of which explain any of the massive plotholes or errors in the game.  Otherwise, even pressing buttons just makes the QTE's last longer, with some minor changes in the movements (you still get hit in the face, but this time it knocks you down...  you still hit the guy, but he shkes it off...)

Throughout the whole thing, I keep finding myself jumping to grab the controller, then forcing myself not to.  Realizing the majority of the QTEs are just to give you something to do with your hands while you watch a poorly written, stiffly acted film is pretty crushing.  "Playing" this game is a little better than messing with your remote while watching a movie.  It's nothing to do with breaking the game, as slmody nothing you do really has an effect on the game at all.  Still, I will read this artticle to see if there's something more to it, and I appreciate your bringing it to my attention.  Thnks.



Alic0004 said:

 

    It's not surprising that a playthrough in which you input almost nothing gives you the least feeling that you're affecting the story -- because no one actually plays a game that way, that would be the least tested/polished type of playthrough.

    I think you're just looking for something in the game which isn't there, Stephen.  Or at least, it isn't the main focus of the game. 

 

Take a look at this article on Kotaku, by the consistently awesome Leigh Alexander:

http://kotaku.com/5479966/why-we-play-games-and-why-we-grumble-about-them?skyline=true&s=i

 

Basically, it sounds like you're looking for a game that lets you break the rules and mess with the overall structure of the game as much as possible.  You would fit into the above article's third category of what you're looking for in a game, in this case at least. 

 

As a gamer who usually is most engaged by storytelling and exploration in games, I really enjoyed Heavy Rain.  I think this is because the game managed to make me feel like I was making the choices in the characters' shoes, and then gave me choices which I would find difficult/interesting/horrifying in my own life.  It doesn't matter to me whether or not having a certain body part, for example, affects the game by allowing a character to take some action which changes the course of the plot and leads to a completely different ending.  What matters to me is that the game made me think about the choice as I was making it with an immediacy and agency which wouldn't have been possible in a movie or book.  As Riachu said, while that choice and many others have a rubberband structure in terms of how they affect the overall flow of the game, often only having aesthetic effects on the rest of the game, they leave lasting emtional impressions.  It's the emotional payoff that I think the game is going for, not the "we just blew your mind, look how structurally malleable this piece of entertainment is" moment that you would get by testing the game out in every possible playthrough, and seeing more branching plotlines than any other game ever made.

 

Anyway, just some thoughts.


I'm sorry, I kinda talked around your meat of your post, and just took a look at that part of the article about story driven gamers...  I would think that, with Heavy Rain's plot holes, stiff dialogue, jarring graphical bugs, and the fact that you're really not making any difference in the story when you interact with it would have ruined it for you...  Or was that an analysis of why you think I didn't like the game as much as I thought I should have, and I'm misreading you?



CGI-Quality said:
StephenSharp said:
Alic0004 said:

 

    It's not surprising that a playthrough in which you input almost nothing gives you the least feeling that you're affecting the story -- because no one actually plays a game that way, that would be the least tested/polished type of playthrough.

    I think you're just looking for something in the game which isn't there, Stephen.  Or at least, it isn't the main focus of the game. 

 

Take a look at this article on Kotaku, by the consistently awesome Leigh Alexander:

http://kotaku.com/5479966/why-we-play-games-and-why-we-grumble-about-them?skyline=true&s=i

 

Basically, it sounds like you're looking for a game that lets you break the rules and mess with the overall structure of the game as much as possible.  You would fit into the above article's third category of what you're looking for in a game, in this case at least. 

 

As a gamer who usually is most engaged by storytelling and exploration in games, I really enjoyed Heavy Rain.  I think this is because the game managed to make me feel like I was making the choices in the characters' shoes, and then gave me choices which I would find difficult/interesting/horrifying in my own life.  It doesn't matter to me whether or not having a certain body part, for example, affects the game by allowing a character to take some action which changes the course of the plot and leads to a completely different ending.  What matters to me is that the game made me think about the choice as I was making it with an immediacy and agency which wouldn't have been possible in a movie or book.  As Riachu said, while that choice and many others have a rubberband structure in terms of how they affect the overall flow of the game, often only having aesthetic effects on the rest of the game, they leave lasting emtional impressions.  It's the emotional payoff that I think the game is going for, not the "we just blew your mind, look how structurally malleable this piece of entertainment is" moment that you would get by testing the game out in every possible playthrough, and seeing more branching plotlines than any other game ever made.

 

Anyway, just some thoughts.


I'm sorry, I kinda talked around your meat of your post, and just took a look at that part of the article about story driven gamers...  I would think that, with Heavy Rain's plot holes, stiff dialogue, jarring graphical bugs, and the fact that you're really not making any difference in the story when you interact with it would have ruined it for you...  Or was that an analysis of why you think I didn't like the game as much as I thought I should have, and I'm misreading you?

You're entitled to your opinion, but I think you have things a little misunderstood regarding HEAVY RAIN. Btw, not everyone is experiencing the bugs.


Some people have it much worse than me, I haven't had many bad bugs...  My issues are more with the game istelf not living up to the hyupe, and just being rather mediocre.  I don't know what you think I've got wrong, but I've played it multiple times now, and it's just not all it's cracked up to be.  I'm glad you enjoy it, but I think we all knew it wasn't going to be for everyone.



CGI-Quality said:
StephenSharp said:
CGI-Quality said:
StephenSharp said:
Alic0004 said:

 

    It's not surprising that a playthrough in which you input almost nothing gives you the least feeling that you're affecting the story -- because no one actually plays a game that way, that would be the least tested/polished type of playthrough.

    I think you're just looking for something in the game which isn't there, Stephen.  Or at least, it isn't the main focus of the game. 

 

Take a look at this article on Kotaku, by the consistently awesome Leigh Alexander:

http://kotaku.com/5479966/why-we-play-games-and-why-we-grumble-about-them?skyline=true&s=i

 

Basically, it sounds like you're looking for a game that lets you break the rules and mess with the overall structure of the game as much as possible.  You would fit into the above article's third category of what you're looking for in a game, in this case at least. 

 

As a gamer who usually is most engaged by storytelling and exploration in games, I really enjoyed Heavy Rain.  I think this is because the game managed to make me feel like I was making the choices in the characters' shoes, and then gave me choices which I would find difficult/interesting/horrifying in my own life.  It doesn't matter to me whether or not having a certain body part, for example, affects the game by allowing a character to take some action which changes the course of the plot and leads to a completely different ending.  What matters to me is that the game made me think about the choice as I was making it with an immediacy and agency which wouldn't have been possible in a movie or book.  As Riachu said, while that choice and many others have a rubberband structure in terms of how they affect the overall flow of the game, often only having aesthetic effects on the rest of the game, they leave lasting emtional impressions.  It's the emotional payoff that I think the game is going for, not the "we just blew your mind, look how structurally malleable this piece of entertainment is" moment that you would get by testing the game out in every possible playthrough, and seeing more branching plotlines than any other game ever made.

 

Anyway, just some thoughts.


I'm sorry, I kinda talked around your meat of your post, and just took a look at that part of the article about story driven gamers...  I would think that, with Heavy Rain's plot holes, stiff dialogue, jarring graphical bugs, and the fact that you're really not making any difference in the story when you interact with it would have ruined it for you...  Or was that an analysis of why you think I didn't like the game as much as I thought I should have, and I'm misreading you?

You're entitled to your opinion, but I think you have things a little misunderstood regarding HEAVY RAIN. Btw, not everyone is experiencing the bugs.


Some people have it much worse than me, I haven't had many bad bugs...  My issues are more with the game istelf not living up to the hyupe, and just being rather mediocre.  I don't know what you think I've got wrong, but I've played it multiple times now, and it's just not all it's cracked up to be.  I'm glad you enjoy it, but I think we all knew it wasn't going to be for everyone.

We did know it wouldn't be for everyone. Knowing that though, those same people shouldn't be very disappointed.

But I have no reason to defend the game really, it's doing that all by itself: reviews/sales alike.


Some...  It's actually well spread accross the review spectrum, from the BS 10s to the too harsh 4s.

Personally, I thought I was going to be in the "like" camp (I loved indigo prophecy), but I thought there was going to be a good story.



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The review I think nails it most, because it seems to be the only one that actually played it and challenged the game a bit:

http://www.edge-online.com/features/review-heavy-rain

"The confusion stems from Heavy Rain’s adaptable storytelling, an ambitious system that sets itself the impossible task of bringing together Cage’s jumble of scenarios. Our heroes can’t regurgitate the plot because they don’t dare try. Heavy Rain pulls off its branching narrative by donning blinkers and sprinting down the chosen routes. Countless permutations of each scene are allowed, safe in the knowledge that they will never be addressed again. Scars, bandages and bloodied stumps accrue, but in a game full of moral choices, we are owed more than a character reskin. How do you invest in decisions if they are so casually frittered away?

Death is a sticking point. Die in the story and the world moves on (see ‘Grave situation’). It’s an intriguingly tangible threat, and as such motivates your success in Quick Time Events – there are no game overs or restarts. Whether driving into oncoming traffic or fighting knife-wielding intruders, the chain of onscreen stick prods and controller tilts is feverishly adhered to. But it appears that the Grim Reaper is in a lenient mood. Deliberately tempt fate, refuse to follow the cues, and the QTEs often play out to non-fatal conclusions. The general skeleton of the story cannot truly be changed, cheapening every event in the process. Whether or not the Origami Killer is apprehended, his fiendishness is neutered from the outset – Cage is unwilling to force the consequences of failure on to the player. "

I think he nails it better than I was... It's not that the basic story is bad... Elements, like gaping plotholes, poor voice acting, and nonsense logic are bad parts of an otherwise good premise... it's that he execution is just very heavily flawed in a game that has nothing else to offer.

Also: game sales don't denote how good a story is.... Bad games sell just fine on hype, then the bad user reviews come in, and people start returning a game after dissapointment sets in, and then sales drop after others just buy it used. Hell, even Haze sold well for a bit...



CGI-Quality said:

Btw, those of you who actually like it and live in the States, don't forget about Thursday (if you pre-ordered it).


I actually have to thank you for the reminder on that...  I may as well check out the free DLC before I trade it in...  I enjoyed Heavy Rain the first time through, so this could be fun, but I won't go ruining it for myself by playing it more than once.  It's going back Tuesday when I grab FFXIII and reserve Alan Wake.



graphic look awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



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