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Forums - Sony Discussion - Sony: Our Motion Control Approach Is Better Than Microsoft's

Icyedge said:
DirtyP2002 said:
M.U.G.E.N said:
DirtyP2002 said:

so MS is running on smoke and mirrors, because they haven't shown Natal to the audience yet. Sony is delivering, because they haven't shown anything, but they will do so @E3. But MS will show something @E3 as well...

Actually the only thing Sony showed was a guy that wasn't able to hit a tennis ball with a gigantic stop sign.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=th8_zKa0DKk

Wait for E3 so far a lot of people are excited for Natal.

ugh I'm sorry mate but pretty much most of the demos MS did for natal were failures.....heck even the earlier ones were admitted to be pre rendered demos.....Milo says hi

 

so far if you have followed the general news on Arc and what devs of game comapnys and journalists say about it after seeing it in action, you will see it has a more postive feedback so far...for Natal it is mostly "it WILL be amazing" ...

the fact that their live demo malfunction in the last E3 didn't exactly put up a good impression either

 

I honestly hope Natal does well....but I personally think Arc will blow it away...we will see who is right by E3 ;)


That is why these failures were in talk shows, late night shows, magazines, Forbes magazine, time magzine one of the innovations of the year, Heck even smallville included Natal. Do you think they do this with a failure? Let's be honest here.

Its probably not a failure. But we know almost nothing about the games that will come out of it. Why are they even talking about it in talkshow and smallville? Its already seems like it is a success, but its not even release. I think this is what the Sony PR was talking about. Also seems fishy to me, I mean they must be paying someone for those kind of publicity stunt. If not theres no reason to talk about everywhere for the same reason that nobody is talking about Sony Arc.

Just like Nintendo must have paid Oprah, Ellen and others to showcase the Wii.  Sometimes a product catches peoples eye and face it the Natal in prototype form did just that.  Blowing it off as a gimmick and publicity stunt doesnt change that. Now we still have to see the real product deliver what the demos did.  We will have a better idea shortly at GDC when I believe we will see more polished demos and E3 when Natal will be fully blown out.



Its libraries that sell systems not a single game.

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NEWS FLASH!

IT AINT! hahahaha.

EVERYONE knows natal is far far better. Check the press coverage! unless ur a MASSIVE console fan u wouldnt know about Sonys wand!

My mum even knows about Natal!



thx1139 said:
Icyedge said:
DirtyP2002 said:
M.U.G.E.N said:
DirtyP2002 said:

so MS is running on smoke and mirrors, because they haven't shown Natal to the audience yet. Sony is delivering, because they haven't shown anything, but they will do so @E3. But MS will show something @E3 as well...

Actually the only thing Sony showed was a guy that wasn't able to hit a tennis ball with a gigantic stop sign.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=th8_zKa0DKk

Wait for E3 so far a lot of people are excited for Natal.

ugh I'm sorry mate but pretty much most of the demos MS did for natal were failures.....heck even the earlier ones were admitted to be pre rendered demos.....Milo says hi

 

so far if you have followed the general news on Arc and what devs of game comapnys and journalists say about it after seeing it in action, you will see it has a more postive feedback so far...for Natal it is mostly "it WILL be amazing" ...

the fact that their live demo malfunction in the last E3 didn't exactly put up a good impression either

 

I honestly hope Natal does well....but I personally think Arc will blow it away...we will see who is right by E3 ;)


That is why these failures were in talk shows, late night shows, magazines, Forbes magazine, time magzine one of the innovations of the year, Heck even smallville included Natal. Do you think they do this with a failure? Let's be honest here.

Its probably not a failure. But we know almost nothing about the games that will come out of it. Why are they even talking about it in talkshow and smallville? Its already seems like it is a success, but its not even release. I think this is what the Sony PR was talking about. Also seems fishy to me, I mean they must be paying someone for those kind of publicity stunt. If not theres no reason to talk about everywhere for the same reason that nobody is talking about Sony Arc.

Just like Nintendo must have paid Oprah, Ellen and others to showcase the Wii.  Sometimes a product catches peoples eye and face it the Natal in prototype form did just that.  Blowing it off as a gimmick and publicity stunt doesnt change that. Now we still have to see the real product deliver what the demos did.  We will have a better idea shortly at GDC when I believe we will see more polished demos and E3 when Natal will be fully blown out.

Actually I wouldnt be surprise at all if Nintendo paid Oprah, Ellen and others. Beware, I work in marketing, paying can also mean exchange in service or giving console so they can give them to the audience. Theres different way of paying then cash. Usually theres always a deal like that when you see this kind of stunt on TV. Heres an example (for people that live in Quebec it will be on Canal Vie):

We have someone here that is a designer (Jean Airoldi), he do a TV series where he is renovating is house (sounds fun lol). In each 1 hour episode, he renovate something different. And well my business sells household appliances, and in one of his episode he come and purchase is appliances for the new house. Do you think they do that because were nice people and company? or because we give them 20K of household appliances. If we wouldnt have accepted this deal, they would have simply ask another company. Free publicity is rarely free.

P.S. if you can read my previous post I explain why it is different when its a TV show or magazine not related to the product than when it is related to the product. Ex. video game company will not pay IGN to do an article on them



Doesn't Sony mean "Nintendo's motion controls are better than Natal"?


And It doesn't matter if either one is better it depends on the SOFTWARE!



Icyedge said:
Cheebee said:
Icyedge said:

You didnt get back about the depth sensing. To my understanding it seems like wii motion + is not as precise as the Arc on this point, or is it?

Sorry, didn't notice that one, what with all the quoting and frenzied posting happening on that page.

Anyway, by depth sensing, I take it you mean how close the controller is in relation to the TV in 3D space? Well, WM+ calculates in high detail every direction it's moved into from a certain starting point, in 360 degrees. So... I'm assuming that's as good as it gets, 1:1. That's based on the purely motion-sensing side of things. If you take the infrared pointer into consideration, then it's especially easy, 'cos that accurately measures depth, distance to TV, to a high degree.

Your right with what I meant by depth. Im not sure it can be as precise with those calculation, lets say you move very fast are you sure it is able to tell where the controller is standing in the room in 3D? Or if you move up close the TV and then 3 meters away, does the Wii know your 3 meters away from the TV? Also, I would guess the starting point is reset each time you enter a new game, so it means that the game can never know exactly where you are standing in the room. Because of the camera it will not be a problem for Sony. It will see the whole room, and know exactly where each players are, and if they are close or not to the TV.

I think this will traduct in a much better 1:1, in the sense that if you would be playing bowling or tennis with it, the whole movement would be a necesity, which is not the case with the Wii. Also this could traduct to "real" bowling, where everyday people doesnt get 200 + points. I think even Williamwatts realize that theres no realism with current Wii controller. You can do a small movement with your hand and it traducts with full arm swing on the screen. I think realism will be the major difference of the 2 products.  Obviously I may be very wrong, its not release yet. But what are your thought about that?

Sorry, late reply, I went to bed last night before reading your post.

Anyway, I'm not entirely sure about those things. I mean, aside from the motion sensing, the Wiimote re-calculates where the controller is whenever the IR pointer is pointed at the screen. I think that's sufficient. I don't know for sure if it would accurately registerif it was moved 3 meters away or something, but to be brutally honest, why would you ever do that, when playing a game? I mean, sure, there are games that may require you to move a bit, but drastic movements such as the one you mentioned are really a non-issue imo. The games will, as far as I can see (and as far as has been the case until now) focus on motions made by the arms and hands. Using your body for extra effect and follow-through happens, of course, but actually moving several meters throughout the room is not something that games will have you do. 

Also, like I mentioned in a previous post somewhere in this thread, while 1:1 motion sensing may be great, it's something that a lot of developers will (and already have, with Grand Slam Tennis & Wii Sports Resort) probably tone down, so as to make the game more accessible and playable. The developer of GS Tennis for Wii actually literally said they felt WM+ People who play these games are not professional tennis players, or skilled at archery, or whatever. So to make a game truly 1:1 and true to real-life situations, would be so exclude a lot of players. The games would simply be too difficult. 

Anyway, I suppose we'll have to wait and see what Sony's device and some actual games will be like. I'm curious to find out more, so they'd better show some stuff soon.



Nintendo Network ID: Cheebee   3DS Code: 2320 - 6113 - 9046

 

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Cheebee said:

Sorry, late reply, I went to bed last night before reading your post.

Anyway, I'm not entirely sure about those things. I mean, aside from the motion sensing, the Wiimote re-calculates where the controller is whenever the IR pointer is pointed at the screen. I think that's sufficient. I don't know for sure if it would accurately registerif it was moved 3 meters away or something, but to be brutally honest, why would you ever do that, when playing a game? I mean, sure, there are games that may require you to move a bit, but drastic movements such as the one you mentioned are really a non-issue imo. The games will, as far as I can see (and as far as has been the case until now) focus on motions made by the arms and hands. Using your body for extra effect and follow-through happens, of course, but actually moving several meters throughout the room is not something that games will have you do. 

Also, like I mentioned in a previous post somewhere in this thread, while 1:1 motion sensing may be great, it's something that a lot of developers will (and already have, with Grand Slam Tennis & Wii Sports Resort) probably tone down, so as to make the game more accessible and playable. The developer of GS Tennis for Wii actually literally said they felt WM+ People who play these games are not professional tennis players, or skilled at archery, or whatever. So to make a game truly 1:1 and true to real-life situations, would be so exclude a lot of players. The games would simply be too difficult. 

Anyway, I suppose we'll have to wait and see what Sony's device and some actual games will be like. I'm curious to find out more, so they'd better show some stuff soon.

Good post, I didnt know that they was toning down the sensibility to make it more accesible. Actually its the big problem I have with the Wii, it lacks realism. I hope Sony dont go that way to make it more casual friendly, or at least I hope they do both. I would like a real bowling simulator, not the Wii bowling where I can get 250 out of 300 easily. About what I was talking that it can sense where you are in the room, it could be use in games where your area would become part of the game. Like you can take an object that is siting on the floor and move it somewhere else in the virtual room that represent your room, they showed this kind of tech at E3. I may be wrong but I didnt see that much realism on Wii. Anyway its awesome we can talk together without flaming each other ;), and im also curious to see what they will show. Im not too exited until then tho.



Icyedge said:
Cheebee said:
 

Sorry, late reply, I went to bed last night before reading your post.

Anyway, I'm not entirely sure about those things. I mean, aside from the motion sensing, the Wiimote re-calculates where the controller is whenever the IR pointer is pointed at the screen. I think that's sufficient. I don't know for sure if it would accurately registerif it was moved 3 meters away or something, but to be brutally honest, why would you ever do that, when playing a game? I mean, sure, there are games that may require you to move a bit, but drastic movements such as the one you mentioned are really a non-issue imo. The games will, as far as I can see (and as far as has been the case until now) focus on motions made by the arms and hands. Using your body for extra effect and follow-through happens, of course, but actually moving several meters throughout the room is not something that games will have you do. 

Also, like I mentioned in a previous post somewhere in this thread, while 1:1 motion sensing may be great, it's something that a lot of developers will (and already have, with Grand Slam Tennis & Wii Sports Resort) probably tone down, so as to make the game more accessible and playable. The developer of GS Tennis for Wii actually literally said they felt WM+ People who play these games are not professional tennis players, or skilled at archery, or whatever. So to make a game truly 1:1 and true to real-life situations, would be so exclude a lot of players. The games would simply be too difficult. 

Anyway, I suppose we'll have to wait and see what Sony's device and some actual games will be like. I'm curious to find out more, so they'd better show some stuff soon.

Good post, I didnt know that they was toning down the sensibility to make it more accesible. Actually its the big problem I have with the Wii, it lacks realism. I hope Sony dont go that way to make it more casual friendly, or at least I hope they do both. I would like a real bowling simulator, not the Wii bowling where I can get 250 out of 300 easily. About what I was talking that it can sense where you are in the room, it could be use in games where your area would become part of the game. Like you can take an object that is siting on the floor and move it somewhere else in the virtual room that represent your room, they showed this kind of tech at E3. I may be wrong but I didnt see that much realism on Wii. Anyway its awesome we can talk together without flaming each other ;), and im also curious to see what they will show. Im not too exited until then tho.

Thanks.

Yeah at first I didn't really understand why they'd do something like that, toning down the precision, but after reading through those interviews and the reasons they gave, I see why they did it. I dunno about future games, I'm guessing there'll be true 1:1 realistic games, but I'm also expecting developers to tone down the motions sensing so as to make their games more accessible. Anyway, like you mentioned, both features would be nice. Like a more accessible mode for beginners and a true 1:1 mode for more experienced players. Yeah I know about that E3 demo, where they are moving around an object in a room, but still, I can't see many uses for stuff like that in real games. Developers usually show a lot of weird stuff in tech demos, haha. Ah well, guess we'll have to wait and see. There are sure to be great games in the future, for both PS3 and Wii. And the 360 for that matter. Bring on E3!

And yeah I agree, I mean we're all civilized people here, we should all be able to talk about the stuff we like and discuss opinions, without resorting to flaming, trolling and endless childish badmouthing. Good to see there are some people who share that opinion.



Nintendo Network ID: Cheebee   3DS Code: 2320 - 6113 - 9046

 

I have a feeling sony doesn't understand what is going on, AGAIN.



Jeronimo66 said:
I have a feeling sony doesn't understand what is going on, AGAIN.


If Sony knew what is going on they'd be pushing this on the casuals rather than the hardcore.  No wonder Phil Harrison left Sony, they still haven't learned anything even after the Wii has pummeled them and taken much of their marketshare.   They can bash Microsoft's PR all they want and instead talk about accuracy and real gamers and whatever but at the end of the day those people are small potatoes and the wider audience cares more about having fun than ridiculous things like if the developer can use the same code base.

Anyone that thinks Sony's motion controller is going to have more success than Microsoft's offering probably also thought that the PS3 would catch up to the Wii once some big games were released because Sony is behaving the exact same way they did back then to a very similar situation.  People can hate on Microsoft all they want but one of the things they're good at is looking at something that works for someone else and learning from it.



Icyedge said:
DirtyP2002 said:
Icyedge said:
 

My point was that it is strange to see so much publicity on an unfinish product that we know almost nothing of. The wand is far from being publicize as much as Natal. You dont find that funny to see an unrelease tech in a TV episode or being called innovation of the year. How did they know? Im not too sure why you were asking my point in the manner you did tho. I wasnt saying wand is better or anything.

Because that is what this thread is about.

You might like this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W81PeswSWP0

Natal is revolutionary in every single way.

I never said Natal is not revolutionary. My point was that it is strange that an un-release product get so much publicity and is claim innovation of the year. In person, if someone tells you something, do you answer with something not related to what he was saying? Now, if you want to tells me why you think theres so much publicity and hype for an un-release product I would be glad. I think that MS may pay or have good friends to receive this kind of threatment, thats my opinion, what yours?

I doubt MS paid or anything in that manner.  But it's very, very likely they instigated the coverage.  Very little you see on shows like Gadget review shows, celeb opinions, etc. is driven from the show/celeb end but the company that wants the exposure.

This is simply good PR and marketing and shows MS have people looking at the market, making calls and arranging for good coverage.  I've worked with our PR a few times (I work for a very large tech company) to help with shows, etc. and I was amazed how much networking and calling around drives that side of things.

However, MS is quite right to be contacting all manner of shows, people, etc. and suggesting they cover or look at Natal.  The real question I think is why Sony seem to be so poor at this, particularly considering their position in the industry.  They produce electronic devices - the should have all the contacts and be all over these shows, etc. for coverage.

So either Sony don't feel ready in the tech/software yet to show it, MS are just more willing to show stuff earlier, or Sony have much poorer PR and Marketing around PS3/Arc... or a combination of the lot.

 



Try to be reasonable... its easier than you think...