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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Is God of War 3/ Uncharted 2 possible on 360?

BW_JP said:
jedians said:
BW_JP said:
themanwithnoname said:
Isn't Gears one of the few games that makes use of the 360's extra RAM? So technically it isn't possible on the PS3. Not that it makes the slightest bit of difference to me, but yeah, Forza 3 probably isn't possible on the PS3 either. Also, anyone saying Uncharted 1 > Gears 2 graphically needs an eyecheck imo.

Its hard to say. Programmed the way it is, you're right it could not. But gears 2 had lots of graphical flaws. Linear hallway shooter with incredibly bad texture pop in and low res textures. its not a pretty game.

Forza 3 doesn't even look as good as GT5P, so yes, forza 3 can be done.

It's not about using specific hardware strengths. No matter WHAT You do, you CAN NOT make a game like uncharted 2 on the 360, it just is not possible. Uncharted 2 Transcends the hardware and uses the spus to do graphics processing far beyond what the 360s can do, and you cant use spus on the 360 since it doesnt have them.

From the day uncharted 1 released, the 360 was doomed to being inferior graphically. it will never change. No game will ever release on the 360 that is better than uncharted 2, god of war 3, gt5 or KZ2. it is just not possible and will never happen.

Maybe, just MAYBE the 720 can touch those games, but i doubt it. 


What does SPUS stands for?

Synergistic Processing Unit.

The PS3 has the Cell Broandband Engine. Which is in some ways a design flaw since it's so hard to program for, but for overall power (with the right dedication) it is simply unmatched. The XB360 has a _BETTER_ graphics card than the ps3 does, it also has more ram, but when you write your code specifically for the CBE and the SPUs you can offload things to them. For instance, Anti-Aliasing. On the 360 2x-4x MSAA is all that is possible. You can not do any more than this. With the PS3, if you are really talented software engineer, you can offload the algorithms and multi-sampling to a SPU. you can use one of the spus to do JUST this. And you can achieve 64x Anti Aliasing results. (See: Eurogamer: The Sabuataur, God of War 3)

 

For games like Uncharted 2, you will realize that not only does it have better graphics than any other game out there, there are no load times, at all. NEVER. the game loads for 20seconds to 1 minute at the start of the game and NEVER LOADS ANYTHING AGAIN this is because the SPU management is loading and managing data in the background while the game is being played. The game is steaming textures and scripts ahead of where you are while you're playing. This is simply not possible without this technology.


Is it better? In some ways yes, in others no. The differences are not gigantic. I still think Lost Odyssey for the 360 looks fantastic! But remember, you're dealing with a machine that is literally a generation ahead of the xbox 360.

Games like God of war 3 have not even been done on the PC. Sure, in terms of raw brute power it looks a _little_ less impressive than crysis, but crysis _never_ has as much impressive things going on at once.


God of war 3 has textures of such high resolution you cannot notice them with 64x Anti-Aliasing and a crisp 60FPS. It is absolutely stunning to watch and is currently putting the video game industry on their knees and ripping their eyes out. It is impossibly good looking. 

 

thanks for such knowledge



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joeorc said:
heruamon said:
joeorc said:
heruamon said:
@ joeorc...

Good postings...probably too facutal and technical for many here...lol.

lol..thank's, though I gotta admit only 450 Game developer kit's being released at that time was a real blow to game development for the PS3. you had to wait for the Kit "this is for mainly 3rd party" but the thing was noone realy even knew about the cell until 2004 let alone had any experience outside of Sony to develop game's for it.

it was like Blu-Ray largely an technology that was released but so little number's of developer's had any experience with it , that you had to take more time in learning the in's and out's of the hardware. which in this industry you cannot do that unless you have money and the time to do so. that's why the late port's with very few number of developer's ouside of sony's 1st and 2nd party has had any chance to take on the task of making game's for the PS3 without needing more time to get more experience with the hardware.

even today you can see some developer's are still getting used to the hardware while some are doing wonder's.

just look at fallout 3 that was using the HAVOK engine in it. and I think it's one of the best game's that was relead this generation, though I got to admit I may have a soft spot for fallout i have played all the game's of the fallout series, and I even played wasteland.

fallout tactic's out side of fallout 3 and 2 are may fav.'s

Often times, I think people get hung up on technology and lose focus of the the most important thing to all of this...ENTERTIANMENT.  Nintendo realized it with the Wii, and they launch a complete coup on Sony this generation.  Technology is important, without a doubt, but like the one comment in the new Wallstreet movie...you can never have enough money...developers will never have enough resources.  Imho, Mass Effect 2 is the best game this generation, and it didn't take 40GBs of information to accomplish.

well I also think Mass Effect IP is a very good game series, but just because one game take's more data does not mean there is not a reason for the extra data. and in many time's quite a number of people think system a) has this limitation, or system b) has this limitation. that's not alway's so clear cut an dry.

for example the ps3 is realeased in 36 countries world wide

the xbox360 is released in 21 countries world wide

would that effect on how many languages your game may need on the disc?

I am sure it does.

also, not just that but unique Asset's that sometime's may not be as apparent, because some tool's cost more than other's so they have to go with what ever tool they can it may be more useful to the developer even though it may not be the best code saving tool, but since all game's for the PS3 have to use Blu-Ray and since all game's released for the xbox360 have to use DVD. the developer's do have tool's they use for each system some of those tool's may be better suited for their development platform than the other.

companies like insomniac  as an example use their own tool's for their game's

right now these development tools are geared toward the PS3 system's. not all developer's have done that outside of 1st and 2nd party.

same with some 3rd party . it mainly depend's on what they have invested into for their studio.


Hmmmm....I didn't really consider the language aspect of it...that's true.  It's not jsut about game data, but all the fringe issues to handle as well, and additional requirements.  I think PS brand is more global than Xbox, but hte gap has signifigantly narrowed from last generation to this one, and will likely reach parrity in the next one.  As to what medium is used...I really can't say, since 20112 is a lifetime away, in terms of technology...flash maybe...better compression tech.  Maybe ever Xbox will come with a 500GB HDD minimum, making it a moot point to get a game on DVD or BRD, since disc install could become standard...computers really totally on dvd, and don't look likely to shift to brd anytime



"...You can't kill ideas with a sword, and you can't sink belief structures with a broadside. You defeat them by making them change..."

- From By Schism Rent Asunder

heruamon said:
joeorc said:
heruamon said:
joeorc said:
heruamon said:
@ joeorc...

Good postings...probably too facutal and technical for many here...lol.

lol..thank's, though I gotta admit only 450 Game developer kit's being released at that time was a real blow to game development for the PS3. you had to wait for the Kit "this is for mainly 3rd party" but the thing was noone realy even knew about the cell until 2004 let alone had any experience outside of Sony to develop game's for it.

it was like Blu-Ray largely an technology that was released but so little number's of developer's had any experience with it , that you had to take more time in learning the in's and out's of the hardware. which in this industry you cannot do that unless you have money and the time to do so. that's why the late port's with very few number of developer's ouside of sony's 1st and 2nd party has had any chance to take on the task of making game's for the PS3 without needing more time to get more experience with the hardware.

even today you can see some developer's are still getting used to the hardware while some are doing wonder's.

just look at fallout 3 that was using the HAVOK engine in it. and I think it's one of the best game's that was relead this generation, though I got to admit I may have a soft spot for fallout i have played all the game's of the fallout series, and I even played wasteland.

fallout tactic's out side of fallout 3 and 2 are may fav.'s

Often times, I think people get hung up on technology and lose focus of the the most important thing to all of this...ENTERTIANMENT.  Nintendo realized it with the Wii, and they launch a complete coup on Sony this generation.  Technology is important, without a doubt, but like the one comment in the new Wallstreet movie...you can never have enough money...developers will never have enough resources.  Imho, Mass Effect 2 is the best game this generation, and it didn't take 40GBs of information to accomplish.

well I also think Mass Effect IP is a very good game series, but just because one game take's more data does not mean there is not a reason for the extra data. and in many time's quite a number of people think system a) has this limitation, or system b) has this limitation. that's not alway's so clear cut an dry.

for example the ps3 is realeased in 36 countries world wide

the xbox360 is released in 21 countries world wide

would that effect on how many languages your game may need on the disc?

I am sure it does.

also, not just that but unique Asset's that sometime's may not be as apparent, because some tool's cost more than other's so they have to go with what ever tool they can it may be more useful to the developer even though it may not be the best code saving tool, but since all game's for the PS3 have to use Blu-Ray and since all game's released for the xbox360 have to use DVD. the developer's do have tool's they use for each system some of those tool's may be better suited for their development platform than the other.

companies like insomniac  as an example use their own tool's for their game's

right now these development tools are geared toward the PS3 system's. not all developer's have done that outside of 1st and 2nd party.

same with some 3rd party . it mainly depend's on what they have invested into for their studio.


Hmmmm....I didn't really consider the language aspect of it...that's true.  It's not jsut about game data, but all the fringe issues to handle as well, and additional requirements.  I think PS brand is more global than Xbox, but hte gap has signifigantly narrowed from last generation to this one, and will likely reach parrity in the next one.  As to what medium is used...I really can't say, since 20112 is a lifetime away, in terms of technology...flash maybe...better compression tech.  Maybe ever Xbox will come with a 500GB HDD minimum, making it a moot point to get a game on DVD or BRD, since disc install could become standard...computers really totally on dvd, and don't look likely to shift to brd anytime

lol, the half a Terabyte HD are already being passed soon the the Terabyte will be here

Western Digital My Passport Essential SE 750GB USB 2.0 External Hard Drive WDBABM7500ABK-NESN - Retail

right now :

$129.99

the problem is it's most likely not going to matter. this generation is already a prelude to the next generation just upgraded hardware spec's. graphic's have become now to the point of "how much time are you going to spend on each Art Asset" the problem is you only have so much time, the graphic's an HDR, and Sound will be great going forward, but there is still going to be limit's on how much time can be spent on a single development project. the big problem is not enough man power, is also one of it's strength's as you most likely will not get over extended cost's wise, but also one of it's largest problem's also you have to pay for those developer's and that can get rather expensive.

the next generation may be just as robust , but project's may take just as long if not longer than it does now with the new hardware. it's already at point's that in order to attain result's like ALAN WAKE it's going on 6 year's!

even with Mature tool's it can still take as long as 19 month's for a new game. that's still quite a bit of time.

EA sport's as an example

from one EA sport's game Madden takes 11 month's to complete than the developer's take a limited break and they are right back creating the new game from one edition to the next.

 

 



I AM BOLO

100% lover "nothing else matter's" after that...

ps:

Proud psOne/2/3/p owner.  I survived Aplcalyps3 and all I got was this lousy Signature.

close call but I'd say PS3



@ joeorc

LOL...your comments somewhat mirror James Cameron and Peter Jackson in that joint interview with them, where they basically said...CGI isn't going to get much cheaper...it's very manpower intensive...let's hope there can be a breakthru.



"...You can't kill ideas with a sword, and you can't sink belief structures with a broadside. You defeat them by making them change..."

- From By Schism Rent Asunder

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gekkokamen said:

@gaming_addict24


no need to be rude dude, it's just my opinion on the topic. I'm allowed to do that. And will say another thing: Those games are possible on the 360. If Guerrilla and Santa Monica Studio were given the task to make them from scratch (no port) for the 360, they would find a way. Multiple discs + installs (if they wanna keep it IDENTICAL more than 3 discs for each KZ2 and GOW3, and KZ2 multiplayer part on a disc or 2 of its own) or SOMETHING would be required but they could pull it off (no True HD audio or HD FMV, of course, since that would be pushing it to the impossible). I think if the HDD was mandatory for any of those big PS3 games, it would be even more possible.


lol sorry but how do you feel about the 2 consoles?



I'd say that the PS3 and 360 are more or less equal in potential graphically. The PS3 might be able to slightly edge it, if properly leveraged, however in practice they are more or less even.

There is no doubt the PS3 could support more CPU centric gaming elements, there's little denying that on a number crunching basis it can outperform the 360, but few games seem to be trying to push this further. I'm talking about the same visuals but having far more CPU intensive AI or physics.

Overall the PS3 has seen the slightly better games visually, however as I've said before this is most likely because it has received the most console specific engines/titles.

Only a few titles on 360 have truly custom engines, most use multi-platform engines and ironically due to its easier to leverage architecture in most cases 360 versions of titles tend to slightly edge (I mean very slightly these days) the PS3 version.

Cost of development is a barrier as well, so I expect to see continued focus on the SDK and methods of reducing this.

Also, the PS3 does have a slight advantage with BR over DVD but again this has only really reared it's head on a few occasions. However I guess it remains a potential advantage. Again though, only exclusives will really take advantage of it. Both Rage and FFXIII for example, were clearly designed with 360/DVD in mind and had elements of their gameplay changed from what BR could support to something more suitable for DVD environment.

I think Forza 3 looked good as a 360 custom title, and Alan Wake is looking very good too. Mass Effect 2 and Gears showed just how well Unreal Tech can perform on 360.

However, with the custom engines driving Uncharted and Killzone, GT5, LBP, etc. the PS3 has seen the better visuals/physics overall so far I'd say. However we're not talking huge differences. Sure, Uncharted 2 and Killzone 2 are the benchmarks for consoles right now, but they're not that far ahead of Gears 2 or Mass Effect 2.



Try to be reasonable... its easier than you think...

Reasonable said:

I'd say that the PS3 and 360 are more or less equal in potential graphically. The PS3 might be able to slightly edge it, if properly leveraged, however in practice they are more or less even.

There is no doubt the PS3 could support more CPU centric gaming elements, there's little denying that on a number crunching basis it can outperform the 360, but few games seem to be trying to push this further. I'm talking about the same visuals but having far more CPU intensive AI or physics.

Overall the PS3 has seen the slightly better games visually, however as I've said before this is most likely because it has received the most console specific engines/titles.

Only a few titles on 360 have truly custom engines, most use multi-platform engines and ironically due to its easier to leverage architecture in most cases 360 versions of titles tend to slightly edge (I mean very slightly these days) the PS3 version.

Cost of development is a barrier as well, so I expect to see continued focus on the SDK and methods of reducing this.

Also, the PS3 does have a slight advantage with BR over DVD but again this has only really reared it's head on a few occasions. However I guess it remains a potential advantage. Again though, only exclusives will really take advantage of it. Both Rage and FFXIII for example, were clearly designed with 360/DVD in mind and had elements of their gameplay changed from what BR could support to something more suitable for DVD environment.

I think Forza 3 looked good as a 360 custom title, and Alan Wake is looking very good too. Mass Effect 2 and Gears showed just how well Unreal Tech can perform on 360.

However, with the custom engines driving Uncharted and Killzone, GT5, LBP, etc. the PS3 has seen the better visuals/physics overall so far I'd say. However we're not talking huge differences. Sure, Uncharted 2 and Killzone 2 are the benchmarks for consoles right now, but they're not that far ahead of Gears 2 or Mass Effect 2.

What I find interesting is that in past generation, or leaps in computing capability, medium hasn't play that great a role.  Granted, games are getting larger, as the generations progress, but not as much on the consecutive iterations.  It's been all about faster processors, better video cards, and more memory.  While I think it would behoove M$ to fund the development of a game engine to fully maximize the 360, they won't, simply because they know Epic and others would cry uncle, and start to get pissed off.  At the very least, they should fund an effort to utilize something like unreal engine to totally and redically customize it for use on the 360, and launch a flagship title on it...maybe say like....oh...Brute Force?  M$...are you listening...please?



"...You can't kill ideas with a sword, and you can't sink belief structures with a broadside. You defeat them by making them change..."

- From By Schism Rent Asunder

On a technical level? Yeah.

Actually happening? 100% no.



gamings_best said:
1 disc same resolution, NO
multiple disc lower resolution, sure

If the number of discs weren't an issue I doubt we'd need to see lower resolutions.



starcraft - Playing Games = FUN, Talking about Games = SERIOUS