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Getting a gaming rig. Buy or Build?

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Garcian Smith said:
Squilliam said:

Compute shader! Its more than just an improvement in gaming, it also makes the GPU more useful in the short, mid and longer term for modeling as well. http://www.pcgameshardware.com/aid,689924/DirectX-11-Compute-Shader-Three-times-faster-than-DX101-due-to-Local-Data-Share/News/ + http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=9f943b2b-53ea-4f80-84b2-f05a360bfc6a&displaylang=en Its also much more efficient than the Shader Model 4.1 GPUs. Its not just about over-buying, its also getting the required features now which will be used, and a DX11 class GPU is much more useful for someone doing modeling and gaming than a GPU which is just as powerful but limited to the DX10.1 feature-set.

Both of those articles were written before the release of DirectX 11 (and the first is just talking points from an AMD exec). Do you have any links showing actual benchmarks on actual video cards regarding 3D modeling?

ATI Radeon HD 4890 Reference Design*
65 W
268 W
ATI Radeon HD 5850 Cypress Reference Design*
24 W
157 W

http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=420&Itemid=72&limit=1&limitstart=14

Gives you the first good reason. 100W difference load, 40W difference under idle.

Another good reason:

http://gamegpu.ru/images/stories/Abzoru/action/BK_2_demo/Battlefield_Bad_Company_2_Beta_1920x1080.jpg

Note, the scaling on DX10 for the most modern of titles.

Another good reason: Anisotropic filtering

http://techreport.com/r.x/radeon-hd-5870/tunnel-cypress.png

As I don't know the modeling software I can't pull up any benchmarks on that. In any case the performance from the 5850 is proportional to price and that performance will get used. You're always advocating for the present, what about the future? Its a much better card all around, just becuase DX11 games haven't started to really take advantage of the technology now doesn't mean that in 6 months time there won't be numerous examples of a distinction between the two cards. At this point the HD 4890 is at its peak and time will not be as friendly to it as a card which carries the latest technology and which still has room to grow.

 

 



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Squilliam said:
ATI Radeon HD 4890 Reference Design*
65 W
268 W
ATI Radeon HD 5850 Cypress Reference Design*
24 W
157 W

http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=420&Itemid=72&limit=1&limitstart=14

Gives you the first good reason. 100W difference load, 40W difference under idle.

Another good reason:

http://gamegpu.ru/images/stories/Abzoru/action/BK_2_demo/Battlefield_Bad_Company_2_Beta_1920x1080.jpg

Note, the scaling on DX10 for the most modern of titles.

Another good reason: Anisotropic filtering

http://techreport.com/r.x/radeon-hd-5870/tunnel-cypress.png

As I don't know the modeling software I can't pull up any benchmarks on that. In any case the performance from the 5850 is proportional to price and that performance will get used. You're always advocating for the present, what about the future? Its a much better card all around, just becuase DX11 games haven't started to really take advantage of the technology now doesn't mean that in 6 months time there won't be numerous examples of a distinction between the two cards. At this point the HD 4890 is at its peak and time will not be as friendly to it as a card which carries the latest technology and which still has room to grow.

 

 

Power consumption shouldn't be an issue unless you're sticking the card into a previously built box with an underpowered PSU. And no doubt the 5850 is a more powerful card than the 4890, but unless you're running at 1920x1200 or higher with high AA you probably don't need the former.

And "future-proofing" your PC - by that I mean, spending a ton of money on hardware that you don't need now so that it can be obsoleted in two years' time by a basic mid-range build - is stupid. Buying the price:performance "sweet spot" now and upgrading only when you need to will save you a ton of money in the long run with little performance loss. This is a trend that's held true since the early-mid '90s and the advent of the "graphics card race," and it won't be ending in the foreseeable future.



"'Casual games' are something the 'Game Industry' invented to explain away the Wii success instead of actually listening or looking at what Nintendo did. There is no 'casual strategy' from Nintendo. 'Accessible strategy', yes, but ‘casual gamers’ is just the 'Game Industry''s polite way of saying what they feel: 'retarded gamers'."

 -Sean Malstrom

 

 

Don't build.. 'It's so much cheaper! You can have a better computer!!' bullshit..and it'll take you forever, and cost you a lot of time and work, and things will go wrong.

www.digitalstormonline.com

Probably one of the best sites to get it from, their prices aren't that bad at all, and they've got options out the ass. Even their lowest-end performance PC is badass. They set up, overclock, and stress test your machine for 3 straight days before sending it to you. Much less of a headache..

But building it will be a little cheaper.



Phrancheyez said:
Don't build.. 'It's so much cheaper! You can have a better computer!!' bullshit..and it'll take you forever, and cost you a lot of time and work, and things will go wrong.

www.digitalstormonline.com

Probably one of the best sites to get it from, their prices aren't that bad at all, and they've got options out the ass. Even their lowest-end performance PC is badass. They set up, overclock, and stress test your machine for 3 straight days before sending it to you. Much less of a headache..

But building it will be a little cheaper.

...or you could build one yourself, spend the five minutes required to overclock it yourself, and save a few hundred bucks. Seriously, OCing these days is just a matter of slapping on an aftermarket cooler and tweaking a few settings in the BIOS.

And building a PC is barely more involving than putting together Legos. A basic build may take a first-time builder a couple of hours at most, and if things go wrong it's your fault for not following the (very basic) directions on your mobo/case documentation.



"'Casual games' are something the 'Game Industry' invented to explain away the Wii success instead of actually listening or looking at what Nintendo did. There is no 'casual strategy' from Nintendo. 'Accessible strategy', yes, but ‘casual gamers’ is just the 'Game Industry''s polite way of saying what they feel: 'retarded gamers'."

 -Sean Malstrom

 

 

Phrancheyez said:
Don't build.. 'It's so much cheaper! You can have a better computer!!' bullshit..and it'll take you forever, and cost you a lot of time and work, and things will go wrong.

But building it will be a little cheaper.

It IS cheaper. And you CAN have a better computer. It's not bullshit. It's especially interesting if you already have some parts, like HDD's and software (Windows) or if you want to install Linux for whatever reason. You don't have to pay for what you are not going to use.

And as I've said before, there is something to be said about the feeling of having built your own computer. It feels more personal that way. And you won't be afraid to change any of the parts either :D



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Garcian Smith said:
Squilliam said:
ATI Radeon HD 4890 Reference Design*
65 W
268 W
ATI Radeon HD 5850 Cypress Reference Design*
24 W
157 W

http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=420&Itemid=72&limit=1&limitstart=14

Gives you the first good reason. 100W difference load, 40W difference under idle.

Another good reason:

http://gamegpu.ru/images/stories/Abzoru/action/BK_2_demo/Battlefield_Bad_Company_2_Beta_1920x1080.jpg

Note, the scaling on DX10 for the most modern of titles.

Another good reason: Anisotropic filtering

http://techreport.com/r.x/radeon-hd-5870/tunnel-cypress.png

As I don't know the modeling software I can't pull up any benchmarks on that. In any case the performance from the 5850 is proportional to price and that performance will get used. You're always advocating for the present, what about the future? Its a much better card all around, just becuase DX11 games haven't started to really take advantage of the technology now doesn't mean that in 6 months time there won't be numerous examples of a distinction between the two cards. At this point the HD 4890 is at its peak and time will not be as friendly to it as a card which carries the latest technology and which still has room to grow.

 

 

Power consumption shouldn't be an issue unless you're sticking the card into a previously built box with an underpowered PSU. And no doubt the 5850 is a more powerful card than the 4890, but unless you're running at 1920x1200 or higher with high AA you probably don't need the former.

And "future-proofing" your PC - by that I mean, spending a ton of money on hardware that you don't need now so that it can be obsoleted in two years' time by a basic mid-range build - is stupid. Buying the price:performance "sweet spot" now and upgrading only when you need to will save you a ton of money in the long run with little performance loss. This is a trend that's held true since the early-mid '90s and the advent of the "graphics card race," and it won't be ending in the foreseeable future.

Noise? Even if you're not paying the power bill its still important.

http://techreport.com/articles.x/17652/9

The graph I showed you was running @ 1650 resolution. NOT 1920.

You're also assuming that the 48xx level is the sweet spot, why? The sweet spot of what exactly? In every case where there is strong scaling based on GPU performance the HD 5850 totally kills the HD 4890/70. I remember when the HD 4870 was the perfect solution for 2560 by 1600, then people said it was the perfect card for 1920 by 1080 then you're saying now that the card is the perfect product for 1650/1050. Things get obsoleted for a reason and technology moves on.

The HD 5850 is quite simply a better card than the 4890 for its features, performance, and noise levels. The only reasons why one ought to choose the former over the latter are shortsighted ones based on the present conditions in the market today.

Heres another one: Would you rather run at 30FPS or 45 and have a margin at 1650/1050 for AA if you want?

Or even the difference between good and average on Crysis?

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Powercolor/HD_5850_PCS_Plus/9.html

And for a modern game which shows excellent GPU scaling, enter HD 5850 again at 1920 by 1080

So you tell me?

 

 



Tease.

Garcian Smith said:
largedarryl said:
If your still looking, I used Memory Express (if you happen to be in Alberta) and OTV from Saskatchewan for all prices, in CAD. If you shop around you can get the best deals from Newegg.ca, TigerDirect.ca, etc.

Antec Nine Hundred Case $119
Antec Earthwatts 650W $90
AMD Athlon II 620 Quad Core (4x2.6GHz, 2MB Cache, AM3) $119
Asus M4A79XTD EVO (AMD 790FX, PCI-E 2.0 Crossfire, AM3/AM2+, ATX) $142
MSI 5850 1GB $342
Seagate 1TB SATAII $95
Keyboard and Mouse $20
DVD burner ~$30

This totals $957 (before taxes)

Overpriced ugly LED case, mediocre PSU manufacturer, crappy CPU, and you don't want to buy a Seagate 1TB hard drive (why not a Caviar Black or Spinpoint F3?) And that's just off the top of my head.

What's wrong with the case, one of the best cases I've ever purchased.  4 system fans and easy access to the HDD bays.

Do you have something against Antec?  They make good products, but I do agree there are better PSU manufacturers and I was attempting to grab a cheaper one for this price breakdown.

Find me a game that this CPU will not work with?  If this guy is buying a gaming rig, why would he spend the money on a more expensive processor when all current games are offloading workload to the GPU.

Seagate, again whats wrong with them, from my standpoint the were still offering 5 year warranties on their HDD's last year (vs 3 year from every other HDD manufacturer)



Squilliam said:

So you tell me?

 

Again, I'm not doubting that the 5850 is a more powerful card, but at $300+ it's also leaning heavily toward the expensive side of the market. I can't argue with those benchmarks, obviously, but you've also cherry-picked two of the most GPU-intensive games on the market (plus a beta running at 8x AA, which taxes any sub-$300 card). For most anything else, the 4890 will run it at max settings, and should be able to for the foreseeable future. That's perfectly fine if the OP wants to pay an extra $100 to push graphics to the max on every game, but I'm working on the assumption that most people here would rather save a substantial amount of cash than occasionally turn down a couple of "Very High" settings to merely, "High."



"'Casual games' are something the 'Game Industry' invented to explain away the Wii success instead of actually listening or looking at what Nintendo did. There is no 'casual strategy' from Nintendo. 'Accessible strategy', yes, but ‘casual gamers’ is just the 'Game Industry''s polite way of saying what they feel: 'retarded gamers'."

 -Sean Malstrom

 

 

Build!!!

1. Saves money
2. Better hardware
3. No spam software
4. More fun :)



largedarryl said:

What's wrong with the case, one of the best cases I've ever purchased.  4 system fans and easy access to the HDD bays.

Do you have something against Antec?  They make good products, but I do agree there are better PSU manufacturers and I was attempting to grab a cheaper one for this price breakdown.

Find me a game that this CPU will not work with?  If this guy is buying a gaming rig, why would he spend the money on a more expensive processor when all current games are offloading workload to the GPU.

Seagate, again whats wrong with them, from my standpoint the were still offering 5 year warranties on their HDD's last year (vs 3 year from every other HDD manufacturer)

Okay, I was being a bit harsh on the case. I just can't stand a case manufacturer that crams bright blue LEDs everywhere - it basically means that whatever room you stick it in will glow blue 24/7. That's fine if that doesn't bother you, but for that price you could have something sleek, classy, and LED-free like the Lian Li Lancool PC-K7B.

Antec's PSUs aren't bad, per se, but for that price you could've had one from a top-of-the-line manufacturer like the Corsair 550VX.

Again, there's nothing wrong with the X4 620, but it's outperformed on most games by the cheaper X3 435/440. The lower clockspeed of the cores really hurts it in games that only take advantage of one or two cores.

Finally, larger Seagate drives are known to have reliability problems ever since they bought Maxtor. (Don't worry - I didn't even know this myself until recently.) I'm guessing that the one you got is this one, which should work decently but only has a 3 year warranty. Western Digital offers an extra two years for just a five-spot more.



"'Casual games' are something the 'Game Industry' invented to explain away the Wii success instead of actually listening or looking at what Nintendo did. There is no 'casual strategy' from Nintendo. 'Accessible strategy', yes, but ‘casual gamers’ is just the 'Game Industry''s polite way of saying what they feel: 'retarded gamers'."

 -Sean Malstrom