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Jaicee said:
The_Yoda said:

First off let me say I am in the camp (aka the seeming majority) that doesn't like that we screwed our allies .  That being said we have been meddling in that part of the world for decades.  PERHAPS if we had stayed the hell out of it all along we wouldn't be viewed as the Great Satan by some in the region and we would have no ISIS today.

In this instance as you have pointed out we weren't imposing ourselves in the region but we have many times before this which has created a great deal of hate for our country by many in that oil rich part of the world.  The middle east also is very rich in Hate not just oil. Not saying they are bad individuals but you have many "neighbors/groups" there that can't stand each other.

Let me preface this by saying:  Although I doubt it would have played out this way had we stood by our allies against Turkey ... Would you have rather been in full blown war with Turkey right now? Committing more American lives and resources, generating more hate?  I can understand DarthMettaliCube's position and more than a little of me wishes things were simple and we just minded our own business in that part of the world.  Alas things are rarely simple ...

I think you're imagining more disagreement than actually exists between us here.

I was more agreeing with both you and DarthMettaliCube.  I understand the frustrations of both of you and can empathize with both. 

I don't think we should be just imposing ourselves on other peoples without provocation either. I was against always against the Iraq War, for example. The fact is though that we did invade Iraq, that ISIS does exist, and that something had to be done in response, not just nothing like Tulsi Gabbard believes. If anything, the fact that we in many ways created that particular mess in the first place imposed a particular moral responsibility on us to play a role in cleaning it up, I believe. I also believe that, frankly, the SDF's cause was just enough to be worth aiding anyway. One does not commonly run across a force like them fighting for democratic principles, secular government, the rights of women, etc., in that part of the world. I for one sure like and respect the SDF a lot better than Turkey's current government.

In some ways I wonder where it will ever end, this cause and effect will likely always create losers that are going to lash out if not at us then at their neighbors.  I doubt with this move that we will no longer get involved anywhere in the middle east, but part of me wishes we would.  It seems like our involvement in that part of the world never really ends well. 

I'm not anxious for more warfare in the Middle East than there must be, but I am saying that we sold these people who gave their lives for us out completely and utterly and that that's not okay.

This is your main point and I agree.  This was a spinless move.

Frankly, in the hypothetical instance you propose wherein Turkey might have invaded Northern Syria anyway, even if we didn't withdraw our forces standing in the way, I believe that would have constituted Turkey initiating war against us. You might ask them whether that would be justified rather than asking Americans whether defending, in this hypothetical alternative situation, both our allies and ourselves from a direct military attack from a "NATO ally" is acceptable. Why is the onus on us to prevent Turkey from launching a war on our forces rather than on Turkey not to do so in this hypothetical alternative universe you propose?

Had we not withdrawn I don't think Turkey would have invaded.  Let's continue on the hypothetical path though. You are right, the onus would have been on Turkey which is why I think they would have just postured rather than advance. We just basically said OK and stepped aside.

Again I don't disagree with you on the Kurds, but I do hope for a day when: We take note of how much damage we have done, what we have lost, decide to cut our losses, and we just stay the hell out the way.  If we do anything over there in the future it should be as part of a NATO initiative / response.