Why can't Dems presidential hopefuls pull this much people for any of their rallys? <20,000+

[Azuren]

SpokenTruth said:

Azuren said:

The real question is why do the crime rates of native-born citizens matter in a discussion about immigrant crime rates? What immigration policies will prevent native-born citizens from committing crime?

Ask eva01beserk.  He made the claim illegal immigrants do the most crimes per capita and were violent. I should showed he was wrong.  If you want to debate why we're discussing native born crime in a discussion of immigration, you'll need to ask him.

Azuren said:

1). Except they do still bring crime at a much higher rate than legal immigrants, 2). crime that would happen much less if immigration policies were addressed and improved. The point made by those discussing crime committed by illegal immigrants does include the disingenuous claims that they commit crime at a higher rate than citizens, but the point that people who are acting in good faith would point out is much of this is 3). crime wouldn't even be in the country in the first place if there was better border security.

1). Rates are skewed because this includes gang and criminal activity.  By that I mean the majority of illegal immigrants common immigrants who can't wait for our antiquated immigration system to push their asylum case (because we got rid of our case worker program...ooops).

2). You're actually correct on this.  We do need to modernize our immigration system.  But as such, it's irrelevant to the crime rate of illegal and legal immigrants given that gangs and criminals won't give a damn what we do regarding immigration policy.

3). You still seem to be under the impression criminals intend to obey our immigration laws.

And.....4). Since you asked the question, "why do the crime rates of native-born citizens matter in a discussion about immigrant crime rates?" Looking at the thread topic...we are all way off course for the actual discussion.

1) Native-born citizens also include gang activity. I'm honestly not sure what point you're attempting to make here, but I would suggest rethinking or paraphrasing it since it seems more like you're suggesting there are a disproportionate number of gang members among illegal immigrants.

2) Again, it seems like you're suggesting there is a disproportionate number of gang members among illegal immigrants, which would lend to the idea that more strict and controlled borders are necessary.

3) Immigration policy doesn't simply include laws, it includes enforcement of the laws. In addition to needing a reform for naturalization, asylum claims, and general immigrant processing we need a stronger presence at the border to prevent and/or discourage illegal immigration.

4) I was simply observing this discussion and chimed in. The fault of the course deviation lies on you and gamingsoul.