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the-pi-guy said:

o_O.Q said:

"Personally, I think in a perfect world, open borders is the only kind of border that makes sense.  "

what about cases where cultures are incompatible?

the us has a vastly different culture to areas in the middle east for example( this is not a value judgement just a fact )

or in this perfect world does everyone all have the same culture, beliefs etc?

I don't believe that "incompatible cultures" exist.  People are individuals, and they tend to morph into the dominant culture.  

Just because certain countries have a different culture, doesn't make it incompatible.  

o_O.Q said:

"If we can improve the lives of people where they are living, they have less incentive to come here.  "

the us spends more than any other country on foreign aid as far as i know

"Spending more" is meaningless.  
Even just "Spending" is meaningless.  If the US was sending trillions of dollars worth of candy to other countries as foreign aid, that would do absolutely nothing to help anyone, yet they could say they spend more.

And even if you're spending more money on the right things, "spending the most" doesn't mean you're spending enough.

o_O.Q said:

the real problem i believe is the government has too much power and so has been allowed for decades to destabalise various regions across the world, which obviously leads to refugees

I don't disagree, but that's not just a product of "big government".  Advocates for small government have just as much pushed for many of the same instigations that caused those types of problems.  

o_O.Q said:

"People shouldn't be dying, because we want to keep them out of the country."

if illegal aliens en masse decide to go on hunger strike because they are not being allowed in, does that mean they should automatically be allowed in ?

Someone choosing to die, is different from helping them die.  

But if someone were at the point where they are choosing to die, chances are probably pretty good that they are in a position where they could qualify for assylum.  

"I don't believe that "incompatible cultures" exist.  People are individuals, and they tend to morph into the dominant culture.  "

this is a non-sequitur, people being individuals and adopting a new culture is unrelated to cultures in some instances being incompatible

you aren't acknowledging that sometimes people choose to retain their culture in spite of their environment

and you don't think cultures that for example repress the freedoms of women or collect the heads of outsiders they come into contact with are incompatible with western culture?

""Spending more" is meaningless.  "

well the only other way would be to stop your government from intruding in the affairs of others and how are you going to do that when you want the size of your government to increase?

never mind that with regards to that issue the ship has already sailed

"I don't disagree, but that's not just a product of "big government"."

it is inevitable with big government that has a security apparatus that is not transparent and unaccountable to citizens which has been the case with just about every big government throughout the history of mankind and for some unfathomable reason many people do not seem to understand that

"Advocates for small government have just as much pushed for many of the same instigations that caused those types of problems."

the right wing people who do this are not advocates for smaller government obviously, they are just as confused as the people on the left who claim to want anarchy but are even more authoritarian than hitler

"But if someone were at the point where they are choosing to die"

so if there is a risk of death the borders should be open?