Machiavellian said:
o_O.Q said:
"What does it matter if I accept open borders or not since that isn't what the article is about"
its important because it would be a waste of time to discuss border security with someone who wants the borders to be gone right?
Maybe if you did not waste your time trying to bring up a subject that has no meaning to the content of what is being discussed, you would not need to ask this question.
"To answer your question so you can feel good, No I do not accept open borders"
why not? why would you deny people access to the united states?
I said I do not accept open borders, that does not mean I do not accept immigration to the US. The term and concept of open border isn't as simple as saying "Let everyone in" then let people in who have a purpose or on certain conditions. I am more than happy to accept anyone who can support their family and increase the welfare of the US. I can go into much more detail but to be honest, if you really want to open this topic, you should open it up as another thread instead.
"Just because I do not support open borders does not mean I accept any means necessary to stop illegal immigration."
huh? any means necessary? you mean securing the border? since you do not support open borders what measures would you take to prevent people from entering the country?
Do we not already have systems in place to prevent people from illegally entering the country. Already accept those. Hell, I just gave an example of doing something outside of the box which I am sure you ignored because it didn't fit your position. Let me state it again, looking to help our neighbors increase the welfare of their countries probably would benefit more than throwing up a wall or forcing people to make dangerous crossings in the desert.
Let me ask you a question, have you ever gone to another country and help build a school, well, housing, roads, bridges you name it. Well, I have and guess what, I have first hand experience in how such projects changes the people. Maybe you should try out something along those lines I promise you it will change your perception on life.
"You asked a question looking to support what is happening"
it has nothing to do with whether i personally support it or not or whether the majority of americans support it or not
it is about what is law, what is in the constitution, what people far smarter than you or I have laid down as the rules to govern a particular society
Lol, people always throw this "What is Law" around only to then ignore it when its not convenient to their position. Laws have come and gone or been changed depending on who is in charge. The constitution has amendments to update and change it. So when you say what is Law, what does that really mean because any Law can be changed, the Constitution can be amended. America has a history of unjust laws and a history of people standing up for their rights and the rights of others making changes to those laws. Just saying "what is Law", "what is in the constitution" what does that actually mean because by itself, it means nothing.
"Also if the person is not given Asylum, why would I be in favor of throwing them back to die"
you just equated not being allowed into the country with death did you not?
I am guessing you felt like ignoring everything else I stated since you only added that one line. Not sure how you came to that conclusion since I gave an answer exactly what I meant but more power to you.
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"Maybe if you did not waste your time trying to bring up a subject that has no meaning to the content"
this is literally a discussion about borders, what are you talking about?
"Hell, I just gave an example of doing something outside of the box which I am sure you ignored because it didn't fit your position. Let me state it again, looking to help our neighbors increase the welfare of their countries probably would benefit more than throwing up a wall or forcing people to make dangerous crossings in the desert."
why couldn't both that and securing the border be done?
why make it into a unilateral thing where its either that borders be secured or aid is given to other countries?
are you aware of how much the us spends on foreign aid btw?
"I am more than happy to accept anyone who can support their family and increase the welfare of the US."
what about those who cannot?
"Let me ask you a question, have you ever gone to another country and help build a school, well, housing, roads, bridges you name it. Well, I have and guess what, I have first hand experience in how such projects changes the people."
you are truly a saint for doing that for people, if i could i would give you a gold star
"Laws have come and gone or been changed depending on who is in charge. The constitution has amendments to update and change it. "
yes but obviously when discussing law we must acknowledge the current state of law
it was once within the law to own people and maybe things will revert back to that point again if certain people have their way
the fact of the matter is that the law right now categorises the us as a country without open borders, regardless of whether you want it to be that way or not
"Just saying "what is Law", "what is in the constitution" what does that actually mean because by itself, it means nothing."
the laws mean nothing because they may change over time?
does this mean you would be ok with me coming into your home and taking your possessions?
" Not sure how you came to that conclusion since I gave an answer exactly what I meant but more power to you."
this is how
"Yeah, we should make sure they continue to die in the desert, that will show them."
this implication here to me is that if they are not taken into the country then they will die, is that an unreasonable conclusion to make?
