At what point is this child abuse? Trans kids.

[dharh]

NightlyPoe said:

1. Well, the big one these last few weeks has been the insistence that there is no athletic advantage for a biologic male competing against girls. Which is, frankly, stupid. I'll bring up the Congressional testimony if you wish. But it should tell you just how deep the denial is that this is even a point of debate.

2. His theories aren't listened to NOW. But all the way up until the 90s, he was highly influential. The reason being that at the time differences between the sexes was used as a way to state that women were inferior and ill-suited to certain jobs and tasks. Now we've careened into the opposite direction because that's where the "good guys" are. One should always be wary of science when it changes based on the narrative, wouldn't you say?

3. Frankly, it's all so politicized that I don't think either side has their heads on straight and both are in the wrong and are harming people.

4. I do not ignore the issue of gender dysphoria, I treat it as itis, not how someone would want it to be. And how they would want it to be is to make someone sex fluid to what's in the mind and not what it is, purely biological. Assigned by anatomy and DNA (yes, I know that the two are sometimes wonky, but that's really a separate issue).

You bring up suicide rates and the pain. I'm bringing it up as well. What I'm saying is that work should be done to accept what they are. That is the most healthy outcome in the end because it's durable. If you have a woman transitioning to a man, who understands that she will always be a woman but feel more comfortable living life as a man, then that cannot be taken away with words. I ask again, why is it that I can be called a woman all day long and it wouldn't effect my ego at all. The reason is because it's not true and there's no one that can make me doubt it.

5. Been awhile since I studied psychology. Afraid I lost my research on that specific study years ago.

And, yes, some people have low intelligence. Half the population is below average if you can believe it.

6. No, I'm making the issue more complex, but bringing it in line with the reality of the situation. A simple answer is the one we hear all the time, that a woman transitioning to a man is a man.

And you bring up abuse, which I'm against, so I'm going to ignore. Abuse from one direction does not mean that the other direction is completely in the right.

7. You didn't answer the question. You went back to abuse again.

1) People who deny that there are athletic advantages to a male who transitioned to a female, especially after puberty has finished, are in denial of the science.  I don't take much stock in such people.  Denial of the science, science that is well peer reviewed and has gone through the full science rigors, is pretty disqualifying.

Which in general is why more sports need to qualifying and weight/muscle classed.

2) For one thing science is a continuous process.  We understand what we understand with the tools we currently have to understand things.  When we get better tools and better understanding we know better how much we didn't understand in the past.  Plenty of people get degrees in whatever then go off the crazy cliff and make a career about it.  Case in point Dr. Phil.  Gullible people will be gullible no matter what ya do.  People who pay attention, get second opinions, actually read up on stuff are not going to fall for the bullshit these people spout.

One should be wary of all things always.  I don't necessarily believe in the guy spouting the inferiority of whomever just because of anecdotal evidence or 'feelings'.  What scientific evidence can you point to that people are claiming says there are zero differences between the sexes?  I'll only state that some jobs that have been traditionally male only are not inherently jobs only a man is suited to do.  Where the line is, I don't claim to know.  I'll let time ultimately dictate that.

4) You say you don't ignore the issue of gender dysphoria, but isn't that exactly what you are doing?  You are basically saying biology trumps whatever is in the mind no matter what.  We are not at all purely the sum of our biology.  Someone could be biologically a certain gender but never fit in with the societal norms of that gender.  It seems to me the real issue here is that people are uncomfortable with the notion that a biological male acts like a woman and gets called a woman.  It seems to offend their senses.

Sexuality is a continuum.  Why is it that if someone so strongly identifies as a certain sexuality and gender that they aren't allowed to be addressed as such?

Are you really bringing up the pain of someone who feels trans?  Much of the pain is not just that they feel different inside, but instead stems from society treating them like shit.

The reason you can be called a woman all day long and it doesn't effect you is, I assume, you have a biological gender, you identify with that gender, aren't really going to be ridiculed, bullied, discriminated against, etc.  You aren't staying up late at night self-hating your sexuality and gender.

The woman who has transitioned to a man, is often having to live with the sentiment you are expressing.  You view them as still a woman, so how can they not help to still be a man trapped in a woman body.  It can absolutely be taken away with words.  They still have to live with the self hate.  No wonder they too often still commit suicide.  Just like those that have been denied from the start.  I absolutely dispute that the most healthy outcome is to hammer away any notion that doesn't conform to the outdated notion of gender and sexuality.

6) Please clarify.  Did you just agree that a woman who transitions to a man is indeed now a man and should be addressed and treated as such?

7) See 4.  Abuse is one of the core issues here.  If society didn't treat them like it does, like shit, I believe the suicides would essentially go down to the norm.  Which is also not good in and of itself.