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coolbeans said:
mZuzek said:

But the main reason why the ending was boring was because of a pacing issue in its build-up. The movie spends far too much time with the main characters in the Death Star, and once they escape, you barely get a couple of scenes with the rebels planning the attack and suddenly it's back at the Death Star again. It wasn't handled well, and it made the ending quite unfulfilling because of how the Death Star suddenly went from "most dangerous place to be" to "the thing to destroy" in only a few minutes.

Then again, I see this pacing complaint also directed at Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 and its second act when compared to the original, so I guess I just can't hope to understand. I'd much rather have a movie that takes its time and develops its characters in the second act (which is often referred to as the "development" part of a narrative for crying out loud) than one that is just nonstop action and excitement and shit going on all the time.

I just don't follow that complaint.  I'd say the build-up is 'economic' in between the escape/attack of The Death Star, and given the context of the Falcon being bugged, the hurried pace marries that desperation quite well.  And it's also important to note just how many key character bits there are in the supposedly overextended time of the characters trapped on The Death Star: Obi-Wan's sacrifice, Leia's quick thinking, etc.  ANH's template is so regarded because of how often you'll see character defined THROUGH action.  And it complements the Buck Rogers/Flash Gordon inspiration quite well in the process.  

It all depends on how its handled, really.  It's not like all I'm craving wall-to-wall action for these films.  But when that development can feel like exposition dump or incorporated oddly, I'm going to point it out.  Guardians 2 is a decent example of some needless stuff that should've been edited out.  The few 'comedic' quips undercutting some emotional line or the 'feelings dump' that occurred after specific fight scenes (Nebula & Gamora).  Mind you, this is coming from someone who's often on shaky ground as to which of the two is better for BOTH respective IP's we're talking about.  I'm only saying: let's not hoist them on too high a pedestal; in regards to Star Wars, the majority of the time I see "Empire>>>>ANH" is from diehard circlejerks who only seem excited to state that b/c Empire's the one with the least amount of Lucas' control--and that by default hands it the win.

I hate this notion that any kind of character development done through cold hard dialog/exposition is inherently a bad thing, as if in real life we always solved all of our problems only through actions. I'm not sure if you have siblings, but I always had fights with my brother growing up and I can say that kind of stuff between Nebula/Gamora is definitely how these things happen, it was only natural they had the "feelings dump" moment after everything they've been through. Also the "comedic quips undercutting emotional line" complaint is a very shallow one, because mostly everytime that happens is in some way to either strengthen the emotional moment or to provide some extra character development showing their points of view on stuff. As in, whereas some people may think the whole "hook up with hot women and fought robots" line at the end was a stupid way to break a dramatic moment, I think that was the touch that made it all the more emotional and personal. That is to say, a lot of people really don't understand that the way the humor is used in these movies is very often used to expose character weaknesses that'll be developed later (obviously not everything follows this pattern, and I'd agree GotG Vol. 2 has a few purely dumb/stupid moments that break the pace, but they are few and far between).

Personally, having seen the movie well over a dozen times, I can say I'd only edit out 3 moments which combined, probably last less than 2 minutes. Everything else is quite necessary for the story to make sense and develop in an interesting way, including a lot of so-called "stupid jokes".

Either way, this is a comment on GotG and not Star Wars, so maybe I should just stop by now.