Why isn't Israel heavily sanctioned? (Double Standards!)

[Zarkho]

Zuhyc said:

They say that Russia attacked Ukraine first, bombed Ukrainian civilians, annexed Crimea and even shoot down the Malaysia Airlines plane... Are you kidding me?

1. There was a Coup d'etat in Ukraine. Right wing protestors, backed by the violent neo-nazis of Svoboda party outed the government from Kiev and set a new right wing government where Svoboda (Again, NAZIS, people, learn a little) played an important role. The US, EU and FMI supported the new government because they wanted to harm Russia, and promised the new government millions of Euros in exchange of certain policy reforms (reforms that would lower the work and rights standards and harm sovereignty, which is the reason why the reforms were rejected by the parliament and the government recently resigned). You can Google a little and learn that this is all true (and, in fact, it would be nice to Google a little before you post the absurd things you're posting).

2. Because of this Euromaidan Coup d'etat (which was initially sold as a "struggle for freedom and against corruption", but the truth is that it was a bunch of nationalist, nazis and ultra-orthodox demonstrating against the pro-Russian government), the people of Crimea, Lugansk and Donetsk, regions populated by people of russian etnicity, declared independence from Ukraine. Crimea also organized one referendum in which the option of joining Russia won. IT WAS NOT AN ANNEXATION, it was a voluntary union that went through referendum.

3. The government of Kiev (capital of Ukraine), seeing the country loosing territory, started a war against the new independent terrtories, mainly the Republics of Lugansk and Donetsk. KIEV (not Russia) has been bombing the streets of the cities in these republics causing thousands of civilian victims. Russia has supported the rebels of Donetsk and Lugansk, but Russia HAS NOT started a war.

4. About the Malaysian Airlines plane bombing, IT IS NOT CLEAR what happened. People here is assuming that it was Russia or the rebels who bombed the plane, but here in Europe (lucky we still have plural media not as biased as the US one) lots of newspapers and agencies say that the rebels didn't have the capacity to fire planes at that altitude, and that in fact it was probably Kiev who shoot down the plane. What interest could Russia have in bombing a civil aircraft?? It would totally go against their interest. On the other hand, there is no proof that the Donetsk rebels have such weapons, but if they were the ones bombing the plane, it was probably a terrible mistake in which they mistook a commercial plane for a military one.

1. I truly do believe that the protests in Kiev were majorily backed by civilions who honestly want a better life. And for that better life they're looking to the West, the European Union. And not to Russia, where there is no freedom for the press, Putin will basically rule the country like a dictator untill he is dead, gay people are being beaten up ...
Allthough I won't deny that some extremist groups profitted from the protests.

2. You say people are ignorant, yet you claim there was a referendum in Ukraine? Lol. People were intimidated to vote for the annexation, and who really knows what the true results were? Russia organised everything.

3. Parts of a state can't just form a new state out of thin air. I'm all for partial autonomy if the Eastern regions desire this, but declaring independence and taking up arms is NOT the way to do this. When things have settled a referundum (and a real referendum, not one staged by Russia) can be organised to vote for independence, like in Scotland.

4. I don't have enough info to comment on this point, allthough you do seem to make a valid point.

1. It is OK if you believe that, but beliefs are one thing and facts are other. The Majority of the demonstrators were orthodox of ukranian ethnicity protesting corruption, the pro-russian stand of he government (remember: an elected government, so even if it is pro-russian that is what the majority of the population of the country had choosen) and claiming that that was a protest for god and their fatherland. Then Svoboda party militants, with an important presence in the demonstrations, started rioting and clashing with the police. Once more in case it is not clear: SVOBODA IS A NAZI PARTY. And thay made it to the government after the Coup. So please, don't be naive: Russia (specially today) has a lot of negative things; lack of freedom of press and expression, corruption, persecution of homosexuality, etc. etc. etc. And I, like most of the reasonable people in the world do not support that. But demonizing Russia and lying about Russia (ssaying that they started the war with Ukraine, or that they bombed the Malasyan Airlines plane, which is not true) only serves to justify evil geopolitical positions that just want war and confrontation (beacuse they profite from war and confrontation and because setting the attention on an evil enemy lets them to act with impunity).

2. Yes, I say some people are ignorants, and you pretty much fall into that area when you affirm things that you do not know and that are false. THERE WAS a referendum, but NOT in Ukraine, as you say, but in Crimea. And thay voted independence and annexation to Russia not because they were intimidated, but because the majority of the population in Crimea (as in the east of Ukraine) are ethnic russians. So please, again, do not manipulate or throw random opinions about things that you do not understand.

3. Any part of a State can form a new state whenever they want. A different thing is if that is a legal or, even better, legitimate move. In the case of Ukraine, the rules of legality and legitimacy were broken first when the rightists were succesfull in a coup d'etat against the elected government. After that, the east provinces organized referendums and declared independence when that option won. It is very simple to understand.

4. No one has enough information about it, and that is why clearly pointing at Russia or the Rebels as the responsible for the bombing is plain manipulation. The commision investigating the bombing, integrated by Malaysians, Australians and Neetherlands proofessionals, has not yet issued a declaration about what happended, so we better shut up and wait for the results instead of helping governments with plain propaganda.

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Just once again: Gaza did not fire rockets against Israel first and then Israel attacked; Israel has been occupying palestinian land since 1948, and even today keeps displacing the original inhabitants of Palestinian towns and builds israeli settlements in the colonized lands. So if they get rockets it is just because they are violating the rights and illegally ocupying the territory of other peoples, who in turn react violently against the occupation.

BTW: Arabs were the majority of the population in the area in 1948, not jews, and jews were not even the original inhabitants of the land; before David and the 12th tribes the people of Canaan and the Phoenicians were living there first.