Putin wants return of Soviet Union, but not Soviet Union!

[Joelcool7]

Branko2166 said:

 

You have either misunderstood or are ignoring what I have said. I did not say Russia alone follows it's national interest but that all nations do. I also never claimed that Russia should be trusted or that it was a democracy but that the west had an oppurtunity to integrate Russia and not alienate it.

What you are basically advocating is precicely the mistake that I have said the west has made. If you had your way, Russia just like Japan and Germany would be a nation under American military occupation/control. There are also countless cases of the west supporting dictatorships where it suits them. Best examples being Saudi Arabia and Bahrain.

Bottom line is that we have a case of a missed oppurtunity and I hope that it's something that we won't live to regret.

 

 

All nations are looking out for themselves to a degree. However western nations have a bigger sense of comrodery, they realize we are a global community and what will benefit our country most might be to invest and support another country. Look at the EU for example Germany is loosing hand over fist bailing out the weaker economies of the EU. Germany and many other EU nations would be far better of not bailing out Greece or Italy or any other struggling EU country. Right now a few countries are dragging down a huge amount of countries and causing financial instability globally.

Look at Nato and the fundamentals behind it. A military alliance where if any member is attacked the others are expected to come to its aid. It costs the US and other countries billions upon billions of dollars a year. Yet other then Pearl Harbor and Afghanistan has the US ever been attacked by a foreign power directly? How about Canada, Canada has never been attacked on home soil by a foreign power since confederation.

See the western countries realize that the other democratic countries and even some non-democratic countries well beings are just as important as there own. Russia wasn't as supportive of other states during the USSR and when they entered democracy they were far more concerned with their own well being then the well being of other democratic countries which they proffessed to now be.

I'd love to see you go to Japan or Germany and claim that their countries are being occupied by America. Germany is far from under US control any more so then any other western country. Angela has proven to be a big critic of US policies and the German Government has not been all that supportive of the US's ambitions. As for Japan yes there are tons of troops and weapons based in Japan, however a presence is not an occupation. Those American troops for the most part are there at the beconing of the Japanese Government , those that aren't are there to protect Japan from countries that would like nothing more then to squash Japan out of existence.

Again I'd love to see you go to Germany or Japan and tell the citizens there that they are under occupation and the control of the US. The majority of them would likely disagree. What about the EU under UK occupation is that the case as well? I mean the UK has a lot of influence militarily and financially, politically over most of the EU. Does that mean they are being occupied? This is the age of globalization what is good for one country likely benefits your country as well, unless your Government is anti-globalization and anti-democratic!

mai said:

 

I beg your pardon for personal comment, but only Joel is capable of writing frigging wall of text with rather discussable argumentation and again not free from factual mistakes, that could have been easily put in a few sentences. Any hopes to have any discussion with the guy dies before they're born - you understand, that you just can't help. One can't argue religion, you just believe in it or not.

Kudos, that was fun :D Will repost it in my blog if you don't mind?

Mai what does this conversation have to do with religion in any way shape or form? What factual mistakes did I make that you are refering to? The West did support dictatorships but they did not support Communist countries. Russia wasn't trust able and maintained strong ties with enemies of the West. I'd like to hear which facts I supposedly screwed up. Not saying I didn't because I do make mistakes from time to time but you haven't pointed any out.

In fact you just show your hatred for me in general and nothing relating to the thread. Of course I write a wall of text, always have its my writing style and I have always posted replies and topics in great detail. I could not convey my message or thoughts in a few sentences without looking like a fool.

I find it funny that you resort to these pot shots without adding anything to the argument. Religion has nothing to do with the discussion which is a major flaw in your reply alone. Why is it every time a user disagrees with me they resort to pot shots about religion or other topics rather then addressing the issues brought up in the actual threads?

Also with that kind of bias and hatred towards me, I do mind if you post it in your blog. I have a feeling you will twist what I have said and honestly due to your bias against me you would not be a good user to represent my topics on any medium of the internet!