Discussion: Terrorism, Israel, Hamas, etc

[Comrade Tovya]

vlad321 said:

Slimebeast said:
vlad321,

The West didn't "put the Jews in Palestine". U know very well about the annual Jewish world congress, Herzl and that jewish immigration to The Holy Land started already late in the 19th century.

It was Jews who wanted to move into Palestine. The Brits even restricted jewish immigration for a long period in the 20's and 30's to try to settle down angry Arab nationalists.

And during Nazi Germany and just after it had fallen there was a huge amount of Jews who fled to Palestine, for obvious reasons.

The West didn't ask for this problem, the Brits didn't ask for this problem and even Germany didn't really cause it, they just escalated it (active Zionism had been a reality for more than three decades already before Hitler).

The West just tried to seek a reasonable solution. Yeah, you can oppose the split of Palestine into two nations, but in that period of time many other nations and regions were divided in Europe and millions and millions of people had to move (in Germany, Poland, Yugoslavia, Greece, Finland and so on). But you never hear those countries whine about it.

 

Yes, Mikhev Israel was formed in 1860 or 1870. However the Palestinians didn't have problems with them as much. However it was AFTER WWI when the west got involved. Mainly the League of Nations agreed upon the Palestinian Mandate, which was in line with the Balfour Declaration, not only that but it REQUIRED that an independent Jewish Agency be created. The US was not part of the League of Nations at the time, however it also signed a treaty which basically agreed completely and supported the Mandate.

After seeing all that literally forced upon your nation, without you having any say in it, anyone would resort to violence. The US required far less before it started bitching and shooting at Britain back in the day.

Also those migrations you talked about, those people had the same religion, and more importantly, the same culture in between them. Thew Jewish and Muslim cultures differ greatly.

 

Actually, if we want to talk historical here, there was no such thing as a "Palestinian" in 1870, so it's no wonder they didn't have a problem with the Jews.

It's actually historically (and actually, recently admitted to by the Arabs) that the whole concept of a "Palestinian" is actually just something that was made up out of thin air.  And like I sad, don't get mad at me, it's the Palestinians who say this.

But on to your point...

Actually, the Orthodox Jewish and Muslim culture really isn't that different, so you are wrong on that.  But yes, the secular Western Jewish culture is significantly different.

Most important though, this whole assertion that the Arabs were somehow cultivating "Palestine" is just historically proven to be false.  Palestine was a land of bedouins and nomads, and virtually no structure existed prior to the Jews returning to their historical homeland.  There was no political structure, industrial structure, or anything.  It was a barren wasteland of nothingness.  One of these days I'll get a new scanner, and scan in some photos my grandfather passed on to me of Palestine prior to the mandate. 

Honestly, it was like looking at a wasteland... there was nothing there, which is why no one gave two-craps about it.

But as soon as the Jews wanted it, low and behold, suddenly the nomads wanted a permanent presence built.

Seriously though, I don't care if Muslims want to live in Israel.  Whether it be for secular reasoning, or Torah reasoning, they absolutely have the right to live in Israel.  Even if you are religious, it's acceptable.  The one acception to that rule being is if the Muslims that live amongst you want to destroy you... and in such a scenario (as exists) no religious or secular nation would accept such a concept. 

If the Arabs want to live in peace, I promise you, the majority of Jews are willing to give them it... but if they can't get off of the war horse long enough to fathom the concept, then I honestly don't care what happens to them.

Israel continues to make concessions, and the Arabs continue to kill Jews after they do so.  I have no compassion for a people who hates their enemy more than they love themselves.  That's just stupidity in the worst way.

And seriously, if I were a Muslim, I'd at least PRETEND to love Israel.  I'd do it just long enough to get Gaza and all of the "West Bank" back, and then after I was firmly "peacefully" planted there, I'd move on and attack again and demand more... and once I got it, I'd wave the peace flag and scream "I love Jews"... and then I'd just keep doing that over and over.

Luckily the Arabs are not bright enough to pull off such a maneuver, and instead, they start firing rockets and performing terrorist acts the day after an Israeli pullout. 

You can blast the Israelis all you like, but my God, seriously, the Arabs have to be smarter than this, right?  Well, 60 years later, and the answer is, "No".  They aren't smarter than this, because they just keep firing rockets and blowing up busloads of school children.  So, if you ask me, the Arabs not only have to be the worst military strategists of all time, they also deserve everything that gets thrown at them.

I swear to you, Saladin would turn in his grave if he knew he left his brilliant military legacy to these people.