Discussion: Terrorism, Israel, Hamas, etc

[Comrade Tovya]

vlad321 said:

Comrade Tovya said:

vlad321 said:

Slimebeast said:

vlad321

FYI The West Bank is still occupied by Israel for the exact those reasons - security for it's citizens.

Gaza was a test ground. Ariel Sharon thought it was good to give the Palestinians a chance to show they can be peaceful. But you know what, they failed. And the opposition party in Israel, with leader Benyamin Netanyahu, is about to win the election that is in a couple of weeks - and Netanyahu has always been against Israel leaving Gaza.

 

Oh well hell, if we're going down that path, why the fuck was Israel even created. When it comes down to it, Western Powers kicked out the Palestinians and put Israel there. Yes, there are a few more nuances but that's what it comes down to in the end.

 

Actually Vlad, you seem to have a written your own version of the history books.

The Western powers didn't "kick out" the Palestinians. ORIGINALLY, both Trans-Jordan and Israel were part of the Palestine Mandate, and was supposed to be split between the Jews and Arabs equally. As we both know, that didn't happen. The Arabs (Palestinians) got ALL of Jordan, and then another half section of Israel.

Secondly, the Jews didn't force the Arabs out. Actually, a lot of them stuck around and became Israeli citizens... and today enjoy the greatest amount of freedoms than any other country in the middle east. So they made a good choice. They have equal voting rights, and can actually hold political office as well.

And what happened to the rest of the Arabs who lived there? The rampaging Arab armies told them to flee, and that after they killed the Jews, they could come back. So that's what they did. And guess what Vlad? The Jews actually beat the tar out of the Arabs.... so why should I feel bad for them? They should have stuck around like their Arab-Israeli citizens breathren did.

So, let's not talk about revisionist history if we can help outselves. The Arabs left because their brothers told them to... the one's who gave their brothers the bird and stuck around got a real good deal from the Jews.

Now the Jews that lived in Arab countries? They were ALL expelled. Not some of them, ALL of them. All of their properties were confiscated, and the assets seized. So if we want to get into a discussion of fairness, let's talk about the billions of dollars in value the Jews lost when their assets were stolen. I don't hear you crying for them? Of course not, anti-Zionism is just a politically correct way to be an anti-semite in todays day in age.

 

You are completely focusing on the wrong time period, as most people do. Yes, given that, the Jews did fight and win Israel by themselves. It's the time period BEFORE all that that shows that it was the West who came in and forced the Jews upon the lands of the Palestinians. Heard of the Balfour Declaration before? Or the fact that the British Mandate of Palestine that you seem to talk so much of was approved only by the League of Nations, which, lo and behold, is a congregation solely of the Western Powers. Or the Jewish Legion? So basically what happened was that the Palestinians were forced to take in the Jews. They never had a say in it or anything. On another note, yes the Jews did defeat the arabic onslaugh in the 7 day's war, however they did it with the help with some serious military tech help from western countries. Next time when you are using history, please go all the way, half-assing it only lowers your writing to the same level as blatant propaganda.

Also please stop with the whole anti-semitism. Do you know that Arabs are Semites as well? You are just as anti-semetic as those Arabs you deplore so much.

 

You are missing the whole point.  Yes, I am a student of middle east politics and intrigue (I think the reasons for such are obvious)...

No resolution establishing any Jewish or Arab state in the middle east has ever been enforceable by the Europeans.  Do you know why?  Even UN resolution 181 was a NON-BINDING resolution.  The Arabs rejected it and attacked Israel.  They lost big time... so bad that they consider it one of the worst disasters in the history of the Arab nations.

Therefore, I find it quite amuzing that the anti-Zionist crowd just loves to scream at the Jews, "You better look at UN Resolution 181, you better do what it says".

Why?!  The Arabs rejected it... and it was only binding in the event both the Jews and Arabs agreed to it.  The Jews did, and the Arabs didn't.  They lost the war, and rejected the resolution, so now by International Law, UN 181 is now simply a piece of history, and has nothing to do with the current times at all.

Lastly, I don't "deplore" Arabs.  As I have stated 500-times in this forum, I have MANY very close Arab & Muslim friends.  I don't hold them accountable for the actions of the nations they emmigrated from.  The VAST majority of Muslims on the otherhand target Jews worldwide with assault and terrorism when most of them are not Israelis, and have NOTHING to do with the current conflict.

Muslim-Americans just love to whine about being oppressed by Americans after 9/11, and then they turn around and do the same thing to Jews who, like them, have nothing to do with terrorism or conflicts in the middle east.  That's why I don't shed tears for them... I don't respect people like that.