akuma587 on 10 December 2008
appolose said:
akuma587 said:
appolose said:
This is a misrepresentation of the anti-abortionist's view. We are not telling a woman how to control her body, we're claiming another body is involved; therefore, for us, abortion is an violation of the rights of another person. Just as we think the government should prevent murders, so do we (in the supposition of fetus=full-rights human being) think abortion should be prevented. The goverment is the moral referee in quite a few cases; if a fetus is indeed fully human, then the government certainly is obligated to intervene, just as it would do in "regular" instances of murder.
The crux of the argument is whether or not a fetus has the full rights as the rest of us, not over what control a woman has over her body.
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Absolutely, you have pointed out the crux of the argument. But you can't answer that question unless you answer the question of what rights a woman has over her body.
Should a woman be prosecuted if she drinks alcohol while she is pregnant? That injures the baby, but telling her she can't drink alchohol would violate one of her rights. What if we found out carrots make babies much smarter if women eats them? She is potentially injuring the baby by not eating carrots, so should she be prosecuted for that? What if we found out that eating McDonald's all the time injures a baby? Should we force pregnant women to not eat at McDonald's?
What if we find out that living in a polluted area injures an unborn child? Should we prosecute a woman if she has a miscarriage because she lived in a polluted area?
What if she knew that living in a polluted area would cause her to have a miscarriage but she never took any affirmative steps besides living in the same city she had always lived in that was already polluted? Is that a crime? How is that any different from voluntarily getting an abortion? What if she moved to a polluted city because she knew it would cause a miscarriage?
What if we found out that grape juice causes spontaneous abortions? What if a woman really likes grape juice and drank it on accident? What if she drank the grape juice on purpose? Is she a criminal?
The abortion issue can't be viewed in isolation of what are the child's rights, because it matters just as much what the woman's rights are in determining what the law recognizes
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Would these situations apply any differently between two persons? I mean, switching out "unborn child" with "another person" should make it clear when a woman's choices infringe upon another person's rights. It certainly wouldn't be my right to blow other people up just because I like doing it, as might well apply with drinking duirng pregnancy (you like doing, but it is massively harming another person, thus you can't do it).
What if we found out that grape juice causes spontaneous abortions? What if a woman really likes grape juice and drank it on accident? What if she drank the grape juice on purpose? Is she a criminal?
As would apply in any other situation, if accidental (and not negligent), she's not a criminal. You can't drive drunk down the road because you might mow someone down.
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An even better question is would they apply any differently under the law between a woman and her child as opposed to a woman and her fetus.
We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls. The only thing that really worried me was the ether. There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke
It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...." Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson
