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10th August 2019 HW sales

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DonFerrari said:

If you want to go this route of putting Lite as not counting a pricecut them PS4 only got a paultry pricecut (and is still at the same price of Switch, being older and more saturated, still not lagging much behind) since the second one came with the PS4Slim. Or you could count PS4 as the first console to sell so much while increasing price on PS4Pro or that would show that it didn't had a pricecut, just a model replacement (like 3DSi).

Nah, the Slim is just a more efficient PS4. There's a legitimate argument to be made that the Switch Lite isn't a price cut because it is a new model that offers a very different experience. Whereas a PS4 Slim offers the same exact experience as a regular PS4. The Switch Lite doesn't. Although again, I still would consider Switch Lite a price cut, didn't say I wouldn't just that I could see how some don't. Even so, the Playstation 4 got it's 2nd price cut only 107 days after the Switch will receive it's first. 



AngryLittleAlchemist said:

colafitte said:

A little nitpicky you are.....

What i meant was, that after selling A LOT already, the console doesn't need price cuts to keep selling A LOT each year. That was my point. PS4 in 2019 is going to sell very similarly at the same price to what Switch did last year (and more than what PS3 or X360 did any year), despite being a 6 yr old console with already more than 90M sold. That's my point, but ey, if you don't like that i use Nintendo as a comparison (it was a sign of respect) because it seems i'm banned to name the word NINTENDO here, i will use Grand Theft Auto V then..., in fact i think is an ever better comparison, ok??

And yes, 2019 has been way worse in quality AAA games than 2017 or 2018. In 1st half 2017 PS4 had Resident Evil 7, Nioh, Nier Automata, Horizon Zero Dawn, Persona 5, Ghost Recon Wildlands, For Honor, Injustice 2, Tekken 7, Crash Bandicoot N' Sane Trilogy, ... all of those games not only sold way more than those you named but were better received critically. The same can be said about 1st half 2018. Monster Hunter World, Far Cry 5, God of War, Detroit Become Human, Dragon Ball FighterZ ... were way more bigger hitters than anything that has launched this year, and I'm not forgetting the explosion in popularity of Fortnite during that period that helped sell PS4's a lot too. What's the best selling game that has launched this year?? The Division 2?...nah, not even close then. And i was not talking about the second half of 2019, which i consider weaker too than 2018, but that's another topic for another discussion.

I'm not the only saying out there that the GOTY (at least on PS4) has been so poor to choose this year that probably Death Strading is going to be the one in the end, just by default. I liked RE2 remake, but it's not GOTY material, DMC 5 isn't either. Ace Combat 7 is not AAA material. KH 3 has been already forgotten, Days Gone is just an 7/10 game, remember?....The only real candidate for me to GOTY is Sekiro, and besides, none of those games have sold gangbusters like Monster Hunter World, Far Cry 5, Ghost Recon Wildlands, God of War, ....

And yes, from Death Stranding to whichever game launch last (TLOU 2 or Ghosts of Tsushima..., who knows) is going to be amazing for PS4, but that's not happening until November and most of it is in 2020, so no correlation with what is happening right now.

Edit: Oh you already insinuated twice that i'm not considering Switch and PS4 in the same race. I always put Switch and PS4 in the same scenario, when i talk about sales i consider Switch as a home console, i always did. I don't know why you are putting that shadow over me. I never stated otherwise.

No you're allowed to use Nintendo as a comparison, and I'm not saying your comparison is wrong (though maybe it sounded that way, I don't know). It's not an invalid comparison. It just seems incredibly redundant to use Nintendo games as an example, but then ignore that Switch is a much better comparison than the Playstation 4. 

As for the games ... ?

Resident Evil 7 got an 86 on Metacritic and Resident Evil Remake 2 got a 93 (91 if you want to go with the PS4 score), and Resident Evil 7 sold 5.1 million in a year and nearly 3 months whereas Resident Evil 2 has already sold 4.5 million in just 7. (Sales + Reception 2019 > 2017)

Nioh and Devil May Cry 5 got the same metacritic score, and Nioh sold 2.5 million in 2 years whereas Devil May Cry 5 sold 2.9 million already. (Sales 2019 > 2017, Reception Equal)

Nier Automata got an 88 whereas Kingdom Hearts 3 got an 83, but Kingdom Hearts 3 shipped 5 million in one week and also was the best selling game of the year in the U.S. and Japan for quite a while, I think only losing that title in the U.S. after Mortal Kombat 11. (2019 Sales > 2017, Reception 2017 > 2019)

Mortal Kombat 11 shipped 5 million in one week and is tracking to be the best selling Mortal Kombat ever. Mortal Kombat 10 holds that now with more than 11 million sales. MK11 doubled the comparable sales of it's second month compared to every Mortal Kombat game in history. It's hard to say what Injustice 2 sold, but it sold 500k on digital storefronts for all of May, and it released May 11th, so I think it's fair to say MK11 is tracking better. (2019 Sales > 2017, Reception 2017 > 2019). 

Sekiro sold 3.8 million copies with a little over 3 months on the market, and got a Metacritic of 91, making it better received and a bigger seller than Nioh (2019 Sales + Reception > 2017). 

I could keep going but I think you're realizing how silly this is. It's all about how you match it up. I tried to be fair by matching up games that were in the same genre or by the same developer or publisher. 

Don't get me wrong, I think to the general consumer market this year is a little worse than 2018 and 2017. You don't see as much heavy hitters as those years, especially early in the year - there's no Horizon or God of War comparison to be made for example, there just isn't really a replacement. But even then you have games like Days Gone which sold so well despite having very mediocre scores. Or the fact that games in nicher genres are generally getting more sales than other comparable games. I think this year is worse for system sellers , but it's still pretty comparable overall, especially when you consider this is the last year before the Playstation 5 comes out - the game releases are naturally slowing down, and yet 2019 still feels pretty close to those other two years. If anything, it might even be a better year in terms of quality, just not in overall popularity and quantity. 

So again, I think a much bigger contributor to a sales decline is just saturation. Most people who want these games probably have a Playstation 4. Is some of it the selling power of the software? Sure, maybe. In fact, even on the software front we're at a point of saturation, as games like Watch Dogs or The Division are having sales that are generally worse, most likely because they are sequels to games that were received as lukewarm. But even then, if this year's release schedule was the release schedule for PS5's 3rd or 4th year, it would probably sell just as well as Playstation 4 did. 

Also, Death Stranding being the only game of the year material to a large amount of people really has more to do with the general close-mindedness of what should be acceptable for a Game of the Year nomination. It has to usually be exclusive, usually be a huge seller, and usually be acclaimed. I mean, it's not even released yet and people are already betting on it. Devil May Cry 5 definitely deserves a shot at the nomination, but it probably won't get it, and Nintendo has released many games that will probably sell 5+ million lifetime, but won't get the nomination (Fire Emblem, Mario Maker, Luigi's Mansion, Pokemon, etc.). 

Me saying PS4 is like Nintendo games about selling in no way means that Switch can't be the same or even better in doing the same. One thing doesn't invalidate the other. My comment was about a discussion i had yesterday about how much Nintendo games tend to keep their initial price because they keep selling and selling through the years (important aspect here..., years), and it came to my mind that with PS4 is a very similar thing too, but just with consoles. I don't know why should i need to name Switch in here at all. It's like to say that Zelda sells like Mario Kart and you come to me and say to me, "but it's Mario 3D game the one who is more close to sales to Mario Kart than Zelda!", well, yes..., or maybe not, but the original point still stands.

In regards of the second point. Yes, KH 3, The Division 2, MK 11 have sold a lot too, yes, but you even admit yourself, this year we have not seen really a system seller like MH World, Far Cry 5, God of War, Horizon Zero Dawn, Fortnite, ....It's a general consensus by almost everyone that 2019 has been worse than 2017 and 2018 in the same period. I don't think i'm lying in this regard. The rest of the year is going to be better, yes, but still nothing compared to the caliber of 2018 juggernauts like Spider-Man or Red Dead Redemption II.

It's just that i expected better quality games (critically i mean) in 2019 at the start of the year for PS4 to reach the numbers i expected by the end of the year, but it seems it wasn't as necessary. And yes, i agree with you, the main reason PS4 is selling less this year is saturation. That's what it makes this year sales so impressive. No home console (or if you prefer, console as a whole) has done 15M+ in a year after 5-6 years since launch still at 300$ or more. PS1, PS2 and Wii (and here i making a direct comparison indeed) were not able to do that, and DS was never as expensive.



Ps4 is really a beast, fighting till the end



colafitte said:

Me saying PS4 is like Nintendo games about selling in no way means that Switch can't be the same or even better in doing the same. One thing doesn't invalidate the other. My comment was about a discussion i had yesterday about how much Nintendo games tend to keep their initial price because they keep selling and selling through the years (important aspect here..., years), and it came to my mind that with PS4 is a very similar thing too, but just with consoles. I don't know why should i need to name Switch in here at all. It's like to say that Zelda sells like Mario Kart and you come to me and say to me, "but it's Mario 3D game the one who is more close to sales to Mario Kart than Zelda!", well, yes..., or maybe not, but the original point still stands.

In regards of the second point. Yes, KH 3, The Division 2, MK 11 have sold a lot too, yes, but you even admit yourself, this year we have not seen really a system seller like MH World, Far Cry 5, God of War, Horizon Zero Dawn, Fortnite, ....It's a general consensus by almost everyone that 2019 has been worse than 2017 and 2018 in the same period. I don't think i'm lying in this regard. The rest of the year is going to be better, yes, but still nothing compared to the caliber of 2018 juggernauts like Spider-Man or Red Dead Redemption II.

It's just that i expected better quality games (critically i mean) in 2019 at the start of the year for PS4 to reach the numbers i expected by the end of the year, but it seems it wasn't as necessary. And yes, i agree with you, the main reason PS4 is selling less this year is saturation. That's what it makes this year sales so impressive. No home console (or if you prefer, console as a whole) has done 15M+ in a year after 5-6 years since launch still at 300$ or more. PS1, PS2 and Wii (and here i making a direct comparison indeed) were not able to do that, and DS was never as expensive.

I agree the original point still stands, but to be fair comparing a Nintendo game to a Nintendo game is a lot more simple than making an analogy about software sales from Nintendo to hardware sales from Playstation, especially when that analogy works better for well ... Nintendo hardware. Like, to make that point about Sony hardware, you have to only talk about sales from late 2016 onwards, you're cutting out the first few years of context, whereas with Switch software we're takling about their sales up until this point.  Just seemed like it was a really out there redundancy, especially because you specified home consoles, to avoid a Switch comparison, which makes much more sense. But yes, your point makes sense ... just kind of oddly stated. 

Then I guess we agree? Saturation > Game decline, basically.



AngryLittleAlchemist said:
DonFerrari said:

If you want to go this route of putting Lite as not counting a pricecut them PS4 only got a paultry pricecut (and is still at the same price of Switch, being older and more saturated, still not lagging much behind) since the second one came with the PS4Slim. Or you could count PS4 as the first console to sell so much while increasing price on PS4Pro or that would show that it didn't had a pricecut, just a model replacement (like 3DSi).

Nah, the Slim is just a more efficient PS4. There's a legitimate argument to be made that the Switch Lite isn't a price cut because it is a new model that offers a very different experience. Whereas a PS4 Slim offers the same exact experience as a regular PS4. The Switch Lite doesn't. Although again, I still would consider Switch Lite a price cut, didn't say I wouldn't just that I could see how some don't. Even so, the Playstation 4 got it's 2nd price cut only 107 days after the Switch will receive it's first. 

Understood but you were being a little anal about the point.PS4 have been going without a pricecut (same price Switch have know) for longer than Switch at the same time.

And some Nintendo games get discounts.

You even understood the point of the person that basically PS systems retain selling for longer and in the case of PS4 not depending heavily in pricecuts which is equivalente to Nintendo games.

Even better is that no one ever sold more consoles than Sony (and look at average) while couple companies have higher average than Nintendo (rockstar perhaps?) but we don't need to go this way on a simple light hearted comparison



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Switch and PS4 are killing it.

Pulling these numbers even though one is being replaced by a new model and the other is 5 years and 9 months old.



DonFerrari said:
AngryLittleAlchemist said:

Nah, the Slim is just a more efficient PS4. There's a legitimate argument to be made that the Switch Lite isn't a price cut because it is a new model that offers a very different experience. Whereas a PS4 Slim offers the same exact experience as a regular PS4. The Switch Lite doesn't. Although again, I still would consider Switch Lite a price cut, didn't say I wouldn't just that I could see how some don't. Even so, the Playstation 4 got it's 2nd price cut only 107 days after the Switch will receive it's first. 

Understood but you were being a little anal about the point.PS4 have been going without a pricecut (same price Switch have know) for longer than Switch at the same time.

And some Nintendo games get discounts.

You even understood the point of the person that basically PS systems retain selling for longer and in the case of PS4 not depending heavily in pricecuts which is equivalente to Nintendo games.

Even better is that no one ever sold more consoles than Sony (and look at average) while couple companies have higher average than Nintendo (rockstar perhaps?) but we don't need to go this way on a simple light hearted comparison

Yeah, after it already had two price cuts, lol. 

Like, if Switch never had a price cut after 2019, I wouldn't go back and say it didn't have a price cut longer than Playstations 4. Luckily, Switch already has achieved that, so I wouldn't need to say that. 

You're actually trying to argue harder than I am now, we wrapped up the conversation I think. Also, I stated already that Playstation consoles sell more on average, and that Playstation 4's sales are more impressive than Switch, so I'm not sure why you're hammering it in. You're right that I was being anal but as a comparison, it's really oddly specific and cuts out the context of Playstations first few years. 



I am surprised to see PS4 peek up above the Switch this week. Although they had been selling pretty close for a while now.

I think the bigger thing is how the XB1 has lost all of its legs even in NA. It seemed to be selling on par with the PS4 in NA up to and including even last year, when it had almost no exclusives. Looks like the lack of exclusives finally caught up to it though. Now it is less than half of the PS4 in NA and getting totally clobbered everywhere else. What was Microsoft thinking in waiting til next year to release Scarlett? I guess they are preparing for a strong launch and they are just going to take a beating until then.



AngryLittleAlchemist said:
colafitte said:

Me saying PS4 is like Nintendo games about selling in no way means that Switch can't be the same or even better in doing the same. One thing doesn't invalidate the other. My comment was about a discussion i had yesterday about how much Nintendo games tend to keep their initial price because they keep selling and selling through the years (important aspect here..., years), and it came to my mind that with PS4 is a very similar thing too, but just with consoles. I don't know why should i need to name Switch in here at all. It's like to say that Zelda sells like Mario Kart and you come to me and say to me, "but it's Mario 3D game the one who is more close to sales to Mario Kart than Zelda!", well, yes..., or maybe not, but the original point still stands.

In regards of the second point. Yes, KH 3, The Division 2, MK 11 have sold a lot too, yes, but you even admit yourself, this year we have not seen really a system seller like MH World, Far Cry 5, God of War, Horizon Zero Dawn, Fortnite, ....It's a general consensus by almost everyone that 2019 has been worse than 2017 and 2018 in the same period. I don't think i'm lying in this regard. The rest of the year is going to be better, yes, but still nothing compared to the caliber of 2018 juggernauts like Spider-Man or Red Dead Redemption II.

It's just that i expected better quality games (critically i mean) in 2019 at the start of the year for PS4 to reach the numbers i expected by the end of the year, but it seems it wasn't as necessary. And yes, i agree with you, the main reason PS4 is selling less this year is saturation. That's what it makes this year sales so impressive. No home console (or if you prefer, console as a whole) has done 15M+ in a year after 5-6 years since launch still at 300$ or more. PS1, PS2 and Wii (and here i making a direct comparison indeed) were not able to do that, and DS was never as expensive.

I agree the original point still stands, but to be fair comparing a Nintendo game to a Nintendo game is a lot more simple than making an analogy about software sales from Nintendo to hardware sales from Playstation, especially when that analogy works better for well ... Nintendo hardware. Like, to make that point about Sony hardware, you have to only talk about sales from late 2016 onwards, you're cutting out the first few years of context, whereas with Switch software we're takling about their sales up until this point.  Just seemed like it was a really out there redundancy, especially because you specified home consoles, to avoid a Switch comparison, which makes much more sense. But yes, your point makes sense ... just kind of oddly stated. 

Then I guess we agree? Saturation > Game decline, basically.

Hahaha, aren't you the one who is discriminating Switch??? You are the one implying that Switch is not a home console..., not me!! (i'm just joking, not talking seriously, don't take this badly please). Please, look back at my original post and you'll see in the very first paragraph how i was already comparing the two in what are they doing this year (that "neck and neck" comment, maybe i used bad the words, i was meaning being close to each other for clarification). Again, i think everything you are saying to me is just in your own mind, not on what i said. You feel that Switch is not a home console and you feel that one thing is more simple than another. You're saying things about me or my post that i've never said or thought!!  I repeat: Switch is a home console regarding sales on this site for me, and PS4 keeps selling in the console department like the best evergreen videogames out there at a high price.

Anyway, we are going circles. My original comment was very simple. PS4 keeps selling in year 6 at 300$ thanks to power brand, recognition and fidelity of gamers and consumers and that's something remarkable, period. Take that whatever you like....i wasn't implying anything else.

Edit: In the end we must be saying almost the same thing i think.....



colafitte said:

Hahaha, aren't you the one who is discriminating Switch??? You are the one implying that Switch is not a home console..., not me!! (i'm just joking, not talking seriously, don't take this badly please). Please, look back at my original post and you'll see in the very first paragraph how i was already comparing the two in what are they doing this year (that "neck and neck" comment, maybe i used bad the words, i was meaning being close to each other for clarification). Again, i think everything you are saying to me is just in your own mind, not on what i said. You feel that Switch is not a home console and you feel that one thing is more simple than another. You're saying things about me or my post that i've never said or thought!!  I repeat: Switch is a home console regarding sales on this site for me, and PS4 keeps selling in the console department like the best evergreen videogames out there at a high price.

Anyway, we are going circles. My original comment was very simple. PS4 keeps selling in year 6 at 300$ thanks to power brand, recognition and fidelity of gamers and consumers and that's something remarkable, period. Take that whatever you like....i wasn't implying anything else.

Edit: In the end we must be saying almost the same thing i think.....

LOL, In my last reply I meant to say I *originally thought* that's what you were implying, not that that's what you were doing. Yeah, I havent thought that's what you were doing for a while, just the first few replies. Funny example about how forgetting one or two words makes an ordeal big

The funny thing is that it wasnt so much about the Switch as much as the dates Haha! 

Oh God, now I sound like one of those people that need to insert the Switch into everything... I take analogies too seriously.