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Locked: SaveJames - Liberal mom forcing her son to act like a girl?

Forums - Politics Discussion - SaveJames - Liberal mom forcing her son to act like a girl?

SpokenTruth said:
o_O.Q said:

so in your opinion this guy broke the women's weightlifting record?

https://twitter.com/zubymusic/status/1100348562041462784?lang=en

No.  This guy never identified as a women for the sake of being a women.  He falsely identified himself for the sole purpose of claiming to achieve a feet. 

This proves you have failed to grasp that psychology plays an important role in gender. This is the same flawed proclamation that you can identify as a cat or dog. We do not have the psychological function of a cat or dog and therefore cannot identify as one.

By the way, I found it exceptionally amusing that you were arguing with an actual transgender person about transgender issues.

"He falsely identified himself for the sole purpose of claiming to achieve a feet. "

falsely? since when did you become charles xavier?

"So who is best fit to decide someone’s sex, and thereby assume their gender identity? Is it society, a doctor, or the individual themselves?"

ok ok lets say he didn't reveal that he was fucking around, you would have been forced to go along with his bullshit wouldn't you?

"This proves you have failed to grasp that psychology plays an important role in gender."

not if you are relying on self-declaration

"This is the same flawed proclamation that you can identify as a cat or dog. We do not have the psychological function of a cat or dog and therefore cannot identify as one."

so the people who have are just crazy?

men have a different psychological profile to women btw

"By the way, I found it exceptionally amusing that you were arguing with an actual transgender person about transgender issues."

yeah I was punching down from my privileged position down onto a margarinised victim... that's how the spiel goes right?



o_O.Q said:
SpokenTruth said:

No.  This guy never identified as a women for the sake of being a women.  He falsely identified himself for the sole purpose of claiming to achieve a feet. 

This proves you have failed to grasp that psychology plays an important role in gender. This is the same flawed proclamation that you can identify as a cat or dog. We do not have the psychological function of a cat or dog and therefore cannot identify as one.

By the way, I found it exceptionally amusing that you were arguing with an actual transgender person about transgender issues.

"He falsely identified himself for the sole purpose of claiming to achieve a feet. "

1). falsely? since when did you become charles xavier?

"This proves you have failed to grasp that psychology plays an important role in gender."

2). not if you are relying on self-declaration

"This is the same flawed proclamation that you can identify as a cat or dog. We do not have the psychological function of a cat or dog and therefore cannot identify as one."

3). so the people who have are just crazy?

4). men have a different psychological profile to women btw

"By the way, I found it exceptionally amusing that you were arguing with an actual transgender person about transgender issues."

5). yeah I was punching down from my privileged position down onto a margarinised victim... that's how the spiel goes right?

1). He basically admitted he was temporarily "identifying" as a women to show a psychical difference between the male and female physique. No need for mind reading when he admits his intention.

2). What frikkin part of you do you think drives you to self-declare your gender identity to begin with....your psychology.

3). Crazy?  Depends on why they identify as such.

4). OMG, you are so close to actually getting it.  Imagine being born with the psychological profile of the other gender?

5). Lol. Not what I meant at all.  Nothing to do with privilege.  More along the lines of telling someone who feels a certain way that they can't feel that way.



Massimus - "Trump already has democrat support."

the-pi-guy said:

o_O.Q said:

"For the people that do, they might care, because the person isn't being sincere.  "

how do you assess sincerity when it comes to declarations like this?

I don't, someone else might.  

In that particular instance, people don't genuinely declare themselves to be trans just to break a record, only to genuinely declare themselves not afterwards.

o_O.Q said:

"the fact that women can be muscular has no bearing on me asking if all that matters is identity

Except you don't seem to believe that if.  "

believe that what?

That if = "if all that matters is identity".  

o_O.Q said:

"The reason I was asking, is because you seem to have intentionally chosen a description of features that tend to be considered manly.  Which is problematic for you argument, because it would suggest that there's some kind of manliness scale (in other words that either gender or sex are nonbinary)"

some men are more apparent than others because their features more prominently display sexual dimorphism

>some men are more apparent than others because their features more prominently display sexual dimorphism

Suggesting that there's some kind of scale, with either their genetic features of how they choose represent themselves.  

Did you read that twitter chain I shared?  It mentions that even biologically there is a scale, and two peaks.  The peaks with the surrounding areas are generally what people consider male/female, but it's still difficult to write concrete lines.  

no one that is arguing that males and females actually exist is arguing that there's no variation, just that ultimately because of the collective characteristics of around 99.9999% of the two groups we can easily establish that there are two categories

Traits don't guarantee someone being of a certain biological sex.  

There are women who naturally grow more hair on their face than some men.  


I suppose if you read the twitter chain, you would've seen that its actually a lot harder than you think to establish there are two categories.  

o_O.Q said:

" Even if it did mean that, why would that matter?  We don't have categories for a lot of things. "

are you a feminist? do you believe women need greater assistance than men from society?

>are you a feminist?

Yes.

>do you believe women need greater assistance than men from society?

I'm pretty sure you're going to argue that in order for feminism to exist that society needs a solid definition of women in order to protect women to help them.  
The reality is, you get the same result by treating people equally regardless of what category they exist in or don't.

o_O.Q said:

"And it doesn't mean that.  It just means the categories are more flexible."

what boundaries are using to maintain the categories?

There aren't solid boundaries.  

Most people are pretty close to the male or female peak, which is why we have those categories, they are useful approximations, but it isn't really possible to have distinct unambiguous boundaries that capture every single individual.    

o_O.Q said:

"Just because you don't understand the nuance"

you are literally telling me that biology is so messy that a woman can have a penis, a full beard etc etc etc

so with that being said what are you actually using to maintain the distinction between male and female?

it sounds to me like you have nothing and that's why I'm here to see if my assumption is correct or not

>you are literally telling me that biology is so messy that a woman can have a penis, a full beard etc etc etc

Correct.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XX_male_syndrome

Genetic female (XX) and yet they have testes.  


Facial hair is grown due to hormones, and it's actually pretty common for a woman to grow a moustache.  

>so with that being said what are you actually using to maintain the distinction between male and female?

The way you/I identify someone as male or female works 99.999% of the time. 

Most people are happy with their "categories", and most of the people that identify as transgender male/female are going to be trying to fit in with the category they identify with.

"Traits don't guarantee someone being of a certain biological sex."

"There are women who naturally grow more hair on their face than some men."

ok ok so therefore the categories don't exist because of the 0.0001%

with those odds I better give up driving since there's the minuscule chance i'll be decapitated

"you would've seen that its actually a lot harder than you think to establish there are two categories.  "

look i'd appreciate it if you guys didn't pretend as if I don't understand this nonsense... just a couple pages ago people were still trying to argue that this isn't about denying biology

a little humility on your side would go a long way

"are you a feminist?

Yes."

what? how?

"The reality is, you get the same result by treating people equally regardless of what category they exist in or don't."

do you really believe that? what are you going to do for example about women's passivity with regards to taking on the harder physical aspects of keeping society running?

I sincerely don't understand how a grown person can believe this kind of stuff, we don't treat each other equally to some extent because of factors which can be controlled but a lot of it is subconscious and driven by factors out of our control

what are you going to do about the preferential treatment attractive people get? what about those with special skills? celebrities? inherent in group bias women have towards other women? women's fear of men because men are larger on average? I could keep going on all day with this

this utopian idea that we can just get people to police their behavior entirely rationally is a joke dude, its becoming really popular in the left but its unbelievably delusional

"but it isn't really possible to have distinct unambiguous boundaries that capture every single individual. "

it doesn't have to capture every individual, categories always have exceptions... we went through this already

so we just pretend that males and females don't exist because of the 0.0001% of exceptions... ok 



SpokenTruth said:
o_O.Q said:

"He falsely identified himself for the sole purpose of claiming to achieve a feet. "

1). falsely? since when did you become charles xavier?

"This proves you have failed to grasp that psychology plays an important role in gender."

2). not if you are relying on self-declaration

"This is the same flawed proclamation that you can identify as a cat or dog. We do not have the psychological function of a cat or dog and therefore cannot identify as one."

3). so the people who have are just crazy?

4). men have a different psychological profile to women btw

"By the way, I found it exceptionally amusing that you were arguing with an actual transgender person about transgender issues."

5). yeah I was punching down from my privileged position down onto a margarinised victim... that's how the spiel goes right?

1). He basically admitted he was temporarily "identifying" as a women to show a psychical difference between the male and female physique. No need for mind reading when he admits his intention.

2). What frikkin part of you do you think drives you to self-declare your gender identity to begin with....your psychology.

3). Crazy?  Depends on why they identify as such.

4). OMG, you are so close to actually getting it.  Imagine being born with the psychological profile of the other gender?

5). Lol. Not what I meant at all.  Nothing to do with privilege.  More along the lines of telling someone who feels a certain way that they can't feel that way.

"He basically admitted he was temporarily "identifying" as a women"

yes and he didn't have to

"Imagine being born with the psychological profile of the other gender?"

by psychological profile I'm talking about neuroticism, conscientiousness etc etc etc

not "I have a penis but I really should have a vagina"

"More along the lines of telling someone who feels a certain way that they can't feel that way."

I've never made that argument just "why should I care about how you feel"

the same thing I'd tell a religious person "I feel you are going to hell you better repent!!!!"... yeah fuck that



o_O.Q said:
SpokenTruth said:

1). He basically admitted he was temporarily "identifying" as a women to show a psychical difference between the male and female physique. No need for mind reading when he admits his intention.

2). What frikkin part of you do you think drives you to self-declare your gender identity to begin with....your psychology.

3). Crazy?  Depends on why they identify as such.

4). OMG, you are so close to actually getting it.  Imagine being born with the psychological profile of the other gender?

5). Lol. Not what I meant at all.  Nothing to do with privilege.  More along the lines of telling someone who feels a certain way that they can't feel that way.

"He basically admitted he was temporarily "identifying" as a women"

1). yes and he didn't have to

"Imagine being born with the psychological profile of the other gender?"

2). by psychological profile I'm talking about neuroticism, conscientiousness etc etc etc

not "I have a penis but I really should have a vagina"

1). Right but you obviously get why I said he was falsely identifying as women.

2). Where do you think "I have a penis but I really should have a vagina" comes from?  That's all psychology. What exactly are you trying to separate here?



Massimus - "Trump already has democrat support."

Locking the thread.  

Seeing as this conversation isn't going anywhere.  And worse, continues to be given arguments out of bad faith.  Words get ignored and others get twisted. 

I've let a little bit more go in threads like these because they've helped me learn a lot (even the nonsense), but at the end of the day there's a point where it's been enough.