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Baalzamon said:

I'm not demanding that. I'm also not demanding that they attend college. Or that they attend college full time.

I went into detail earlier how there are other career options available (that can pay very well) that require less schooling. I also detailed that some people choose to take a less than full load in order to balance out their work/school.

Provided that these other options are available, and it by no means is a societal requirement that you graduate college, why then, should we as a society provide for free the schooling that these people are CHOOSING to take in the method that they do it (whether it be to not work while going to school, taking a full load that they feel occupies all of their time, etc etc).

I don't think Student loans should be a thing, but that's the Australian in me talking... Education should be a service to benefit a nation rather than a money making business exercise.

In saying that... I left home as a teenager with just the clothes on my back and was a high-school drop out.
Did tertiary college in Information Technology and Network Administration for a few years straight after... But didn't pursue a job in that field, basically did those courses to further my own understanding for my own interests. (Keep in mind this was the 90's before the .com bubble burst!)

Became a Disability/Aged Carer... Then became a Firefighter with no student loans, no degrees or anything silly like that.

I am a strong believer in hard work getting you what you want, rather than driving up debt and spending a percentage of your life in a book, I don't see how such stresses are even remotely beneficial to be honest. Life is short, get out there and enjoy it, plenty of well paid work around... And career options if you work hard enough.
The US might be a bit different though in the opportunities it provides.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Pemalite said:
Baalzamon said:

I'm not demanding that. I'm also not demanding that they attend college. Or that they attend college full time.

I went into detail earlier how there are other career options available (that can pay very well) that require less schooling. I also detailed that some people choose to take a less than full load in order to balance out their work/school.

Provided that these other options are available, and it by no means is a societal requirement that you graduate college, why then, should we as a society provide for free the schooling that these people are CHOOSING to take in the method that they do it (whether it be to not work while going to school, taking a full load that they feel occupies all of their time, etc etc).

I don't think Student loans should be a thing, but that's the Australian in me talking... Education should be a service to benefit a nation rather than a money making business exercise.

In saying that... I left home as a teenager with just the clothes on my back and was a high-school drop out.
Did tertiary college in Information Technology and Network Administration for a few years straight after... But didn't pursue a job in that field, basically did those courses to further my own understanding for my own interests. (Keep in mind this was the 90's before the .com bubble burst!)

Became a Disability/Aged Carer... Then became a Firefighter with no student loans, no degrees or anything silly like that.

I am a strong believer in hard work getting you what you want, rather than driving up debt and spending a percentage of your life in a book, I don't see how such stresses are even remotely beneficial to be honest. Life is short, get out there and enjoy it, plenty of well paid work around... And career options if you work hard enough.
The US might be a bit different though in the opportunities it provides.

But this brings about a very important question regarding education being a service. What level of education? Because there are schools ranging from $6,000 per year (tech schools) to $50,000 per year. The current "crisis" involves people attending a variety of these schools, with many being better/worse in different areas.

So I guess I just ask, how much schooling should be provided for free? Is there a dollar threshold that should be provided for free? If a school is provided for free, does it have to meet certain criteria (reigning in costs, etc)? Will this ultimately just result in these schools being crappy schools?

I'm not even going to pretend to know the answers to these questions, but given the current situation, I think it makes it much more complicated to handle.



Money can't buy happiness. Just video games, which make me happy.

Baalzamon said:

But this brings about a very important question regarding education being a service. What level of education? Because there are schools ranging from $6,000 per year (tech schools) to $50,000 per year. The current "crisis" involves people attending a variety of these schools, with many being better/worse in different areas.

So I guess I just ask, how much schooling should be provided for free? Is there a dollar threshold that should be provided for free? If a school is provided for free, does it have to meet certain criteria (reigning in costs, etc)? Will this ultimately just result in these schools being crappy schools?

I'm not even going to pretend to know the answers to these questions, but given the current situation, I think it makes it much more complicated to handle.

All of it should be free right up to College. - College should be subsidized heavily with less subsidies for those who have higher incomes and almost free to those who are unable to support themselves and thus are on welfare.

University of course should carry a premium but still have subsidization... But let's be clear, University is only for those chasing some extremely technical jobs... And to get in you should need to pass a plethora of tests pertaining to the subject you are chasing anyway.

It is basically the Government "Investing" in the people for the future, to allow those on lower social-economic tiers to push upwards and thus enter higher tax brackets, to give businesses human resources that can drive innovation.

That is my general view anyway and is generally what happens here... Just think of it as an investment on the behalf of the Government, they will get their money back later.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Let's take a little step back here. Will people have extra money though?

Making college "free" doesn't just magically make it actually cost nothing. Most candidates are proposing raising taxes. I believe some of the candidates have even said taxes absolutely will be raised on the middle class (to fund this as well as their other items). Well, contrary to what you are saying, this won't magically make more money available. Our take home pay for the remainder of our life will simply decrease to pay these taxes (similar to now, where it is decreased to pay for student loans).



Money can't buy happiness. Just video games, which make me happy.

The cost of college is not the biggest issue when it comes to education. Yes college is pretty expensive and the government do more to make it cheaper. But less than half the people that actually attend college graduate and even those that do they see a pretty high unemployment rate after. Politicians should reduce the price of college while putting a focus on non college options like trade and vocational schooling. Free college won't fix our education problem.



Baalzamon said:
Let's take a little step back here. Will people have extra money though?

Making college "free" doesn't just magically make it actually cost nothing. Most candidates are proposing raising taxes. I believe some of the candidates have even said taxes absolutely will be raised on the middle class (to fund this as well as their other items). Well, contrary to what you are saying, this won't magically make more money available. Our take home pay for the remainder of our life will simply decrease to pay these taxes (similar to now, where it is decreased to pay for student loans).

Shouldn't need to increase taxes.

Higher levels of education usually has an associated increase in wages due to potential higher quality job opportunities opening up, which means an individual sits in a higher tax bracket naturally, if more people can get higher levels of education... Then hopefully all the other associated benefits go with it.

Think of it as a long term investment.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

jason1637 said:
Machiavellian said:

NK will continue to run this game for as long as Trump is willing to entertain it.  This is not the first rodeo NK has done exactly the same tactic.

Yeah i'm not a fan of this strategy either. I preferred the fire and fury strategy but if this does end up working I guess that's cool.

It's not wrong to work towards something, the thing is that on each visit from either Trump or someone within Trump administration, NK was not willing to give up anything.  NK likes the attention of the US giving them face but they have no intention of giving up their nukes.  They are willing to negotiate to the end of time if any US President is willing to continue to play that game.  We will see if Trump administration can crack the code but I am sure they would need to give up a lot and NK would more than likely not follow through.

Last edited by Machiavellian - on 01 July 2019

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WzMZxT-41k

Wtf is wrong with these type of people? Do they not know that they're just making their organization look bad?



jason1637 said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WzMZxT-41k

Wtf is wrong with these type of people? Do they not know that they're just making their organization look bad?

MOB Rules.  Even thought this is some world class BS, did Mr. Ngo take one for the team.  The reason I am saying this is after reading up on Mr. Ngo, it would seem he isn't all that much of an innocent participant to this conflict.  It seems he has been very vocal concerning Antifa.  Its almost as if he played up this situation for months before dropping himself in the middle of a protest which I am sure he knew was dangerous.  The Antifa organizer mentioned him by name before the event and Mr. Ngo had written on social media that he was worried but still marched in their like a soldier. 

I am guessing he got what he wanted.  The crowd acted in violence, he was then able to publized the whole violent event and the conservatives went up and arms demanding federal investigations, impeachment of the Democratic Mayor, you name it.

It seems strange that after Mr. Ngo would say the things he has said concerning the group, he would march right in the middle of them expecting hugs an kisses.  



Machiavellian said:
jason1637 said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WzMZxT-41k

Wtf is wrong with these type of people? Do they not know that they're just making their organization look bad?

MOB Rules.  Even thought this is some world class BS, did Mr. Ngo take one for the team.  The reason I am saying this is after reading up on Mr. Ngo, it would seem he isn't all that much of an innocent participant to this conflict.  It seems he has been very vocal concerning Antifa.  Its almost as if he played up this situation for months before dropping himself in the middle of a protest which I am sure he knew was dangerous.  The Antifa organizer mentioned him by name before the event and Mr. Ngo had written on social media that he was worried but still marched in their like a soldier. 

I am guessing he got what he wanted.  The crowd acted in violence, he was then able to publized the whole violent event and the conservatives went up and arms demanding federal investigations, impeachment of the Democratic Mayor, you name it.

It seems strange that after Mr. Ngo would say the things he has said concerning the group, he would march right in the middle of them expecting hugs an kisses.  

Antifa were the ones that came to the HimToo march to cause trouble. Ngo was live streaming the march. Even if he did antagonize online they shouldn't be attacking someone that hasnt laid a hand on them. The antifa guys also attacked some officers after but they are in police custody right now.