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Forums - Politics Discussion - Official 2020 US Election: Democratic Party Discussion

Tbh the Spanish was not needed. Their were subtitles if you watched it on Telemundo and Beto/Bookers spanish was horrible,



SpokenTruth said:
KLAMarine said:
Goodness, why the sudden Spanish!? Just answer the question!

1. They were in Miami.

2. A lot of Democrats speak Spanish.

3. He was answering the question.  Well, Booker and Castro were.  Beto was...he probably shouldn't do that again.

4. Can't wait to heat Buttigieg tomorrow with his 7 languages.

A lot of Americans in general speak Spanish (around 58 million), especially in Florida. However, it wasn't really needed.

Also, great job on this thread. It has been very informative. I might not be a democrat, but you've done an excellent job on this thread. :)



SpokenTruth said:
KLAMarine said:
Goodness, why the sudden Spanish!? Just answer the question!

1. They were in Miami.

2. A lot of Democrats speak Spanish.

3. He was answering the question.  Well, Booker and Castro were.  Beto was...he probably shouldn't do that again.

4. Can't wait to heat Buttigieg tomorrow with his 7 languages.

I'd rather candidates use the time they have to answer questions as succinctly and effectively as possible rather than bother with a second language. That's just double the work, half that work likely being sub-standard.

Translations will be provided as needed on their own end by people who are trained to provide translations. English to Korean translators are probably not equipped to provide Spanish to Korean.

Last edited by KLAMarine - on 27 June 2019

I watched the "debate"
I actually wouldn't call it a debate so much as a forum as I'd say a debate actually requires some point by point positions, point by point rebuttals, then responses to the rebuttals and clarifications: the closest we got was Castro eviscerating Beto O'Rourke who tried to make up for his weakness on the Texan border by alternating between English and Spanish.

I rank them as follows:

The Good
Generally speaking, these candidates all felt like they had a lot of knowledge and were strong/leading candidates on the policies they were advocating for. Also, they all came off as charismatic.

1. Elizabeth Warren - Won the first half, not much talking time in the second, but the strongest closing statement, and very strong charisma. Generally, when she spoke she sounded like a strong authority on every topic she covered (she knew the state of things, and projections, and everything). One thing I really liked about her was how she didn't rely on technical terminology to describe a problem and the solution, she could do it very effectively in plain and intuitive English with anecdotal stories.
2 (tie). Bill De Blasio - Runner up in half 1, and strong placing in the second. Similar to Warren, he spoke in anecdotal stories and plain English to get his point across - could be a tactic, but IMO it is a display of wisdom and experience. He was generally strong all around.
2 (tie). Julian Castro - I liked his use of policy bills to really crush Beto. Otherwise he was a powerful voice all through.
2 (tie). Cory Booker - Came off incredibly passionate. At many times he drove the forum. He had really great charisma. I pushed him lower because he spoke a lot, but didn't have as many highlights as the others who had less opportunity
5. Jay Inslee - The leading candidate on green issues and didn't show any weakness in any of his positions, but didn't speak nearly enough.

The Bad

Mostly these were the ones who were on the boring end, didn't seem to be on the ball, and gave mostly bad answers.
6. Tulsi Gabbard - corrected Tim Ryan on Al Qaeda vs Taliban; but otherwise had nothing to say other than "I was in the military." about 80% of the time and had the personality of a wooden board.
7 (tie). Tim Ryan - he was the most ignorant one there, his highlight was mixing up the Taliban and Al Qaeda, but I recall he had some good answers on something.
7 (tie). Amy Klobuchar - She yapped a lot, but was so vague that I really didn't understand what her points were.
9. John Delaney - I admit, I was REALLY excited about this guy, thought he would run away with it. He came off as really backward and wrong on issues, and only gets 9th because he cucked Beto's answer at one point by inserting himself into Beto's spot in an argument against Castro. Generally speaking, reminded me of an asshole boss of a small company who eventually sold out on his workforce for a few million. But the moment that disappointed me the most is when I found out it wasn't John Mulaney.

The Ugly

10. Beto - Got HAMMERED, and I mean HAMMERED in this debate. I think there's a big conflict with him in that he still has aspirations in Texas, but the positions that would make him popular there are fairly bad ones when on the debate stage at literally any other part of the world. There was a point where he was arguing something, he got some pushback, and then when he was going to respond Delaney jumped in and argued in his stead (that was the cuck moment). Also, I told you this guy wasn't charismatic.

I think Beto is going to be the first casualty in the debate period. He can't hold onto Texas only issues and expect to inspire the whole of the country - most of the US (from my understanding) see Texas as an oddball state. In other words: it seems to me he's trying to run for President, but is not willing to say anything that would piss Texas off, but he is not going to win over the rest of the country with that tactic - and that's why he got beaten up so badly because he was trying to have it both ways.

Last edited by Jumpin - on 27 June 2019

I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

HylianSwordsman said:
Mnementh said:

endorsements

For this I take the data from the 538-endorsement-tracker. They apply each office a point-value, based on importance. The above graph shows the point-value of the endorsements and a percentage of the complete pool. Overall just 16% of the possible endorsements are taken, so there is room for change. Maybe the debates will bring in new endorsements.

You switched Cory Booker and Kamala Harris, FYI.

I did, thanks for the hint. I replaced the image, so if the browser reloads it, it should be fixed now.



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Bill de Blasio did in my opinion a great job, and not by given speaking time, but by interjecting. As the moderators didn't stop that behaviour, I see at the next debate even more people speak over others time. But the main thing here is, he could that way choose the topics he wanted to talk about. And that he did great. He said that health care is not working as the companies do it. He said (very great in my opinion), that not the immigrants are guilty to your situation, the big companies are. He said the democratic party should stop acting as the party of elites, but as the party of the working people. Bill de Blasio took even over something Tulsi Gabbard should have interjected to (she got into the discussion a bit later as response to Ryan): the question to O'Rourke (of all people) if the US should intervene with human rights violations. That is excellent stuff.

I think Warren, Gabbard and Inslee were too tame. As people started to speak into others times, they were left behind mostly. Still apparently as Jason pointed out Gabbard got a boost out of it. Probably because most viewers didn't know her before and saw her for the first time. But she was too reluctant to go in (and Warren and Inslee too), for instance as Klobuchar interjected that we cannot stand by as Russians meddle in elections, Tulsi could've pointed out her legislation proposal to make elections more secure.

And Delaney tried also with speaking over others, but for him it looked mostly bad.

I don't speak spanish, but O'Rourke and Booker seemed a bit unsteady in their spanish responses. I think if you do speak spanish, you should be able to do it.

Someone who surprised me was Castro. I didn't have much an opinion of him, but he did well.

At some point as Tim Ryan was speaking I was thinking: right, he is also in this debate. He didn't left a big impression.

So, in my personal opinion, this is how it turned out.

Winner: Bill de Blasio surprised me and I think Julian Castro also did very well.

Loser: Tim Ryan (who is this), John Delaney and Beto O'Rourke

solid: Elizabeth Warren, Amy Klobuchar, Cory Booker

mixed: Tulsi Gabbard disappointed me in being too tame, but had her moment in the back and forth with Tim Ryan.



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Stephen Colbert weights in:

And the discussion afterwards with Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez:

And Part 2:

So, what do you think about how both saw the debate?



Humanist Report gives a conclusion of the night:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umAy3VShMEs



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Apparently Tulsi Gabbard was named as the winner of the debate in two different straw polls, followed by Elizabeth Warren. For the other candidates the result is inconsistent, for instance is Castro third in one poll and last in the other.



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Mnementh said:

Apparently Tulsi Gabbard was named as the winner of the debate in two different straw polls, followed by Elizabeth Warren. For the other candidates the result is inconsistent, for instance is Castro third in one poll and last in the other.

One does wonder sometimes if they've seen the same debate as we did. Just look at the conclusion from Washington Post:

Really, Castro didn't stand out? But Klobuchar did? Beto stood his ground???