Quantcast
How does this school system compare to yours?

Forums - General Discussion - How does this school system compare to yours?

Mnementh said:

Inhowfar is Finlands demography special? Looks pretty standard to me:

Which country are you from?

As for Singapore: they do pretty well in recent years and with quite a different schooling system. I am against standardized tests though, this does not help students to think but instead to follow rules and predetermined routine. Makes for good workers, but bad innovators.

As I said, I was from GDR, which had a school system which generally was seen as doing pretty well and  which also had no standardized tests. As far as I know germany as a whole has no standardized testing routine in school to this day and does overall not too bad (better as the US in any case).

Well for one thing Finland seems to have an abnormally low student to teacher ratio so comparisons can be distorted with other countries and they have a very strong teacher's union. No other nations or administrations with just as successful and competitive educational systems can replicate Finland's model such as Canada, Singapore, Japan, Hong Kong and South Korea so Finland should be rightly treated as an anomaly to be ignored because there's nearly nothing of value to learn from the case ... 

I'll let entertain which country I'm from as the one's I've listed from the above aside from Finland is the other oddball out among them ... (even I think our system might be distorted as well because of a high amount of rich immigrant expats) 

As for Singapore, yes they do very well and are nearly diametric opposites to Finland's model. As for standardized testing, there is one very big advantage that it does grant which is a competitive environment against other students because without a benchmark to provide some sort of measure of ability among students there is no realistic way for them to self motivate themselves to improve. I can possibly understand why you might object to standardized testing but when it comes post-secondary school admission then the only truly fair and just way to benchmark students with varying secondary education quality on equal grounds is with exams. I can get why you oppose standardized testing so much but when prestigious schools have limited seats and students with very different previous educational backgrounds then it must become a necessity to settle it with a standardized test especially with very big countries like the US or China ... 

There's more to an educational system than just purely increasing the quality like we see with Finland but a lacking component keeping it from creating the truly best students like we see with either Singapore or Hong Kong is facing the competition. While Finland can pride itself as having the most arguably pleasant educational experience with great results, they cannot pride themselves as either having the best students or being a role model for other countries ... 



The problem with nearly all rankings of countries in any area is that the factors used to determine the ranking can be cherry picked to get just about any result one wants. Also, it is legitimate for various people to value things differently. I might say that kids need to learn the value of hard work and long hours (that's generally what leads one to financial success in most modern, industrialized places). Finland's short school days would move them down on my list, whereas it is seen as a positive here.

For the record, I'm not arguing this point here. I don't even necessarily agree with it. I'm just giving an example of how rankings like this are of little real value.



fatslob-:O said:

Well for one thing Finland seems to have an abnormally low student to teacher ratio so comparisons can be distorted with other countries and they have a very strong teacher's union. No other nations or administrations with just as successful and competitive educational systems can replicate Finland's model such as Canada, Singapore, Japan, Hong Kong and South Korea so Finland should be rightly treated as an anomaly to be ignored because there's nearly nothing of value to learn from the case ... 

I'll let entertain which country I'm from as the one's I've listed from the above aside from Finland is the other oddball out among them ... (even I think our system might be distorted as well because of a high amount of rich immigrant expats) 

As for Singapore, yes they do very well and are nearly diametric opposites to Finland's model. As for standardized testing, there is one very big advantage that it does grant which is a competitive environment against other students because without a benchmark to provide some sort of measure of ability among students there is no realistic way for them to self motivate themselves to improve. I can possibly understand why you might object to standardized testing but when it comes post-secondary school admission then the only truly fair and just way to benchmark students with varying secondary education quality on equal grounds is with exams. I can get why you oppose standardized testing so much but when prestigious schools have limited seats and students with very different previous educational backgrounds then it must become a necessity to settle it with a standardized test especially with very big countries like the US or China ... 

There's more to an educational system than just purely increasing the quality like we see with Finland but a lacking component keeping it from creating the truly best students like we see with either Singapore or Hong Kong is facing the competition. While Finland can pride itself as having the most arguably pleasant educational experience with great results, they cannot pride themselves as either having the best students or being a role model for other countries ... 

OK, you talked about demography, but 'abnormally low student to teacher ratio' is no demographic issue but an issue about how much money the country is willing to spend on education, and how this money is spent. I would always argue, that smaller classes is always a way to success, so it comes down to the willingness to spend the money on the teachers.

I see your argument about standardized tests as competition+fair comparison on equal grounds. Tell me if I misrepresent it. For competition: I am opposed to standardized tests, not to testing at all. But a test tailored from the teacher to his class is much better than something made for everyone in the country. it still provides ground for competition and personal betterment. You can try to improve your grade in comparison to last year or in comparison to your classmates. The second reason is silly in my opinion. The idea to have grades that can gauge the success of the student on a national scale is ridiculous in my opinion. I am not sure if grades work in that way at all. They are good for competition and helping you to see your personal progress. But universities should ignore grades altogether and have always individual entrance exams to chose the most qualified students. This works much better than grade that are only semicomparable, even with all the tries at standardization. Again, this means bigger investments education as entrance exams need more personell to evaluate. SATs simply are the cheap way.

So yes, in my opinion more and better trained educators are great for better results. The other stuff may have effects too, but is not that impactful.



3DS-FC: 4511-1768-7903 (Mii-Name: Mnementh), Nintendo-Network-ID: Mnementh, Switch: SW-7706-3819-9381 (Mnementh)

my greatest games: 2017, 2018

Predictions: Switch / Switch / Switch / MHWorld / GOW > BOTW / Switch vs. XB1 in the US

VAMatt said:

I might say that kids need to learn the value of hard work and long hours (that's generally what leads one to financial success in most modern, industrialized places).

This is not true and was never true. Hard work and long hours were always reserved for the ones on the lower end of society. Success is either determined by ingenious thoughts or (more likely) by money of your family.



3DS-FC: 4511-1768-7903 (Mii-Name: Mnementh), Nintendo-Network-ID: Mnementh, Switch: SW-7706-3819-9381 (Mnementh)

my greatest games: 2017, 2018

Predictions: Switch / Switch / Switch / MHWorld / GOW > BOTW / Switch vs. XB1 in the US

I remember questioning my 11th grade history teacher as to why we get multiple choice questions and he gave us a reason. Their mindset is that if questions are “fill in the blank” then students will only have to “remember” the answer and not really know it. But with multiple choice students will see multiple answers and if they really know it they’ll pick the correct answer. I think that’s completely backwards. That same teacher did give us a surprise fill in the blank quiz and nearly everyone failed miserably.



PC GAMING: BEST GAMES. WORST CONTROLS

A mouse & keyboard are made for sending email and typing internet badassery. Not for playing video games!!!

I live in Saint Lucie Country Florida and here teachers aren’t allowed to give kids a 0 grade if they don’t do the work. The lowest grade they’re allowed to give is a 50%. So if there’s a struggling student who gets say a 58% after trying really hard then a lazy ass who doesn’t do the work at all there’s only 8% difference in their score. I think that’s bull and it’s only done as a way to make the schools not look as poor as they’d look if they gave kids zeros. I’ve had this discussion with my son’s teachers and they also agree that it’s foolishness.



PC GAMING: BEST GAMES. WORST CONTROLS

A mouse & keyboard are made for sending email and typing internet badassery. Not for playing video games!!!

Cobretti2 said:
Ka-pi96 said:
Any written explanation for those of those that don't like videos?

- Finland sucked at education

- changed system and world ranking skyrocketed

- secret sauce no homework

- 3-4 a day at school only (20 hours a week)

- no standardised testing, no multiple choice answers

- encourage you to aim for what you want

- all schools equal standard (as mostly free education and public) so rich kids and poor kids mix and become friends. meaning later in live rich kids will think twice before they screw their mates over

I've no idea about any world ranking stuff, but I grew up in the UK and they had equal schools too so that makes sense to me. There was homework, but I never did it, I mean why would you? It's just a waste of time. Thanks for backing me up there Finland! They had standardised tests with some of them being multiple choice tests. I don't mind that though. I'm good at tests and multiple choice just makes it even easier. Don't really see the problem with tests though, they make sense to do. The amount of importance they attach to said tests however doesn't make sense. They're really not as important as schools like to pretend they are (well maybe they are in terms of school funding or something, but for the kids taking the tests... eh).



Bet Shiken that COD would outsell Battlefield in 2018. http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8749702

I'm at work so I can't really watch the video at the moment, but based on the summary that was posted it sounds like a school system that the kids would love, as it's basically easy mode, but it doesn't seem like it would be very successful.



RaptorChrist said:
I'm at work so I can't really watch the video at the moment, but based on the summary that was posted it sounds like a school system that the kids would love, as it's basically easy mode, but it doesn't seem like it would be very successful.

Because instead of learning how to score well on a test, and spending ~1/3rd of your time doing that.
They are just promoteing learning, and keeping students happy & intrestested in learning.

They arnt slaveing away, panicking about test scores.
Their focused instead, entirely on learning.

Sounds stupid? but apparently it works.

Also its all public schooling, no privatising of the schooling system so only the select few, rich can get a good education.
The many > the few (rich), leads to a overall better education system (big picture).

They probably spend less money on education too than in the US.
Its just the US system is heavily ineffecient, and its run like a corporation/business, where profits to the ones provideing the educations weights high.

Last edited by JRPGfan - on 18 February 2019

Number of days to reach 50M from 40M : 198 days
Number of days to reach 60M from 50M : 187 days
Number of days to reach 70M from 60M : 175 days
Number of days to reach 80M from 70M : 227 days

Necro-bump this 2020: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=229249

Even without watching the video, I can fairly confidently say it sounds exactly like the system we have here.