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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Crackdown 3 Review Thread - MC: 60 OC: 62

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Mr Puggsly on 19 February 2019
zorg1000 said:
Mr Puggsly said:

You're making a lot of assumptions.

Sumo is a big studio that works on many projects at once. They released numerous games while Crackdown 3 was in development.

I also believe the delays were primarily due to the multiplayer aspect and maybe just extra polish. It doesn't take a massive team to necessarily work on that.

Multiple studios built things for the game, but Sumo was always the primary developer.

Literally none of those things dispute what I said and I already acknowledged your counter points.

Telling me that Sumo works on other games and that other studios built things for the game but Sumo was the primary developer are 100% redundant statements because I already said those things.

All you did was repeat what I said then acted like it was a rebuttal.

"I know Sumo works on multiple projects at once but a couple hundred people working on a game for 4+ years is definitely in the big team, big budget territory."

That's a lot of assumptions in that single sentence. We saw gameplay in like 2017 and the final product doesn't look much different. So why would it take hundreds of people to continue the work if much of the game is already complete? Who knows if hundreds were ever actually working on this game at a single period?

From my memory, it seems games have huge teams when they have short development periods like major games trying to hit a holiday release. Hence, EACH STUDIO working on a game doesn't mean a team of hundreds. Hellblade was apparently developed by a team of like 20 people, a fraction of the studio I would assume.

Last edited by Mr Puggsly - on 19 February 2019

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zorg1000 on 19 February 2019
Mr Puggsly said:
zorg1000 said:

Literally none of those things dispute what I said and I already acknowledged your counter points.

Telling me that Sumo works on other games and that other studios built things for the game but Sumo was the primary developer are 100% redundant statements because I already said those things.

All you did was repeat what I said then acted like it was a rebuttal.

"I know Sumo works on multiple projects at once but a couple hundred people working on a game for 4+ years is definitely in the big team, big budget territory."

That's a lot of assumptions in that single sentence. We saw gameplay in like 2017 and the final product doesn't look much different. So why would it take hundreds of people to continue the work if much of the game is already complete? Who knows if hundreds were ever actually working on this game at a single period?

From my memory, it seems games have huge teams when they have short development periods like major games trying to hit a holiday release. Hence, EACH STUDIO working on a game doesn't mean a team of hundreds. Hellblade was apparently developed by a team of like 20 people, a fraction of the studio I would assume.

Sorry if I phrased that poorly, I have no idea if hundreds of people were working on it all at the same time, I just meant hundreds of people worked on the game over a 4-5 year period.

To me that seems like the game wasnt as low budget as Chris Hu made it seem.



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Mr Puggsly on 19 February 2019
zorg1000 said:
Mr Puggsly said:

"I know Sumo works on multiple projects at once but a couple hundred people working on a game for 4+ years is definitely in the big team, big budget territory."

That's a lot of assumptions in that single sentence. We saw gameplay in like 2017 and the final product doesn't look much different. So why would it take hundreds of people to continue the work if much of the game is already complete? Who knows if hundreds were ever actually working on this game at a single period?

From my memory, it seems games have huge teams when they have short development periods like major games trying to hit a holiday release. Hence, EACH STUDIO working on a game doesn't mean a team of hundreds. Hellblade was apparently developed by a team of like 20 people, a fraction of the studio I would assume.

Sorry if I phrased that poorly, I have no idea if hundreds of people were working on it all at the same time, I just meant hundreds of people worked on the game over a 4-5 year period.

To me that seems like the game wasnt as low budget as Chris Hu made it seem.

Given its MS we can assume it had a fairly big budget, they can afford to throw some money around. But I highly doubt it had a MS AAA budget.

At one point it may have had a lot of people that touched this project in some way, but during the entire development? Highly unlikely. Some studios just did their work and left the project, it was Sumo's job to put it all together.

Why does it even matter though? This is MS, they can afford to take risks. Frankly its good thing MS has Gamepass because that helps justify a project like Crackdown 3 by encouraging people subscribe. Even if people subscribe and dislike it, there are a bunch of objectively notable games they might like on Gamepass. Anecdotally, I'm a Gamepass subscriber because it only takes two $60 games to justify a year subscription. So Forza Horizon 4 and Crackdown 3 have already made my subscription worthwhile.



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vivster on 19 February 2019

So the early impressions were on point. I wonder if this is the last nail in the coffin for Microsoft's commitment to create 1st party exclusives. I haven't read any reviews, has anyone mentioned the power of the cloud?



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Pemalite on 19 February 2019
vivster said:

So the early impressions were on point.

Indeed. It is what it is though... My original criticisms from several years ago are still relevant today... And that is the graphics pipeline seemed a little "bare". (For lack of a better word.)

vivster said:

I wonder if this is the last nail in the coffin for Microsoft's commitment to create 1st party exclusives.

No. Not after investing in a ton of new studios.

Mr Puggsly said:

Why does it even matter though? This is MS, they can afford to take risks.

Precisely. Microsoft is set to be a $1 trillion dollar company. This is a drop in the bucket... But it does do one thing, that is to build good will with Xbox gamers... As Microsoft needs exclusives... And they kept promising to do better on that front.... Could you imagine the shit storm if Microsoft cancelled Crackdown 3 as well?

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

At the end of the day, Crackdown 3 is more Crackdown, if you didn't enjoy the first two titles, you won't like the third.

Mr Puggsly said:

Frankly its good thing MS has Gamepass because that helps justify a project like Crackdown 3 by encouraging people subscribe. Even if people subscribe and dislike it, there are a bunch of objectively notable games they might like on Gamepass. Anecdotally, I'm a Gamepass subscriber because it only takes two $60 games to justify a year subscription. So Forza Horizon 4 and Crackdown 3 have already made my subscription worthwhile.

Personally I can't justify Gamepass, I like to own my games.
Gold I can justify as I keep the Xbox and Xbox 360 titles... And Humble Bundle I can justify as I keep those too... But each to their own.



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DonFerrari on 19 February 2019
LudicrousSpeed said:
DonFerrari said:

So he was promising before having power to do so?

So since you are saying he wasn't lying, them the reason for taking 4+ years to honoring the promise to increase 1st party content was?

Idk bro, where did he say this? What was he referring to, exactly? How much control did he have at the time? Was he answering to someone confident in the Xbox brand or was it the guy who didn’t want to spend money on Xbox? What content was there for Microsoft to secure at the time? What studios that they bought recently were available to buy four years ago?

Unless you factually know the answers to these questions and more, you’re talking out of your ass to say he’s a liar. 

So you were away from this forum the last 5 years? I do remember you participating, even on the Spencer's threads.

There were multiple promises of improving 1st party along those years. And here you and others trying to say he can't be blamed for the past 6 years because first it was Don Mattrick fault then it is because he wasn't high on the hierarchy (yes Senior Directors are powerless). So either he is to blame because he had the power but didn't take action or he was lying because he didn't had power to honor the promise. You can't have both.

Chris Hu said:
DakonBlackblade said:

When this generation started Crackdown 3 was going to use "the power of the Cloud" and squish out every once of power the Xbox had to prove its technical superiority to PS4. It was suposed to be a flagship title, then things went bad, it got delayed 500 times and MS themselves seen to have just forgotten the game, they didn't even make much of a noise when it released, a lot of ppl didn't even know it had released until they stumbled upon the reviews. The point is ppl seen to be in a cruzade to find things to use as excuse for this game, it is an unexcusable game just like something like Fallout 76. A big studio, with time on their hands and a big budget should be able to deliver something way more polished than these two games I use on the example.

It maybe was supposed to be a flagship title for about a second but never was in reality.  Also it wasn't made by a big studio and neither where the previous two games and none of the Crackdown games had big budgets.  If the first game didn't come with the beta for Halo 3 there more then likely wouldn't have been a second or third game even though none of them had big budgets.

Yes, they have kept hyping it for all these years because it wasn't a flagship, it wasn't the poster child for the Power of the Cloud. If they thought the game have less than 1M sales potential why would they throw so much money and time and hype on the game? Your math doesn't match.

Mr Puggsly said:
zorg1000 said:

Sorry if I phrased that poorly, I have no idea if hundreds of people were working on it all at the same time, I just meant hundreds of people worked on the game over a 4-5 year period.

To me that seems like the game wasnt as low budget as Chris Hu made it seem.

Given its MS we can assume it had a fairly big budget, they can afford to throw some money around. But I highly doubt it had a MS AAA budget.

At one point it may have had a lot of people that touched this project in some way, but during the entire development? Highly unlikely. Some studios just did their work and left the project, it was Sumo's job to put it all together.

Why does it even matter though? This is MS, they can afford to take risks. Frankly its good thing MS has Gamepass because that helps justify a project like Crackdown 3 by encouraging people subscribe. Even if people subscribe and dislike it, there are a bunch of objectively notable games they might like on Gamepass. Anecdotally, I'm a Gamepass subscriber because it only takes two $60 games to justify a year subscription. So Forza Horizon 4 and Crackdown 3 have already made my subscription worthwhile.

MS certainly can afford to take risks, still they were more conservative and making less new IPs (even if paid for 3rd parties) than Sony and Nintendo, even though they are many times bigger than both.



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SvennoJ on 19 February 2019
Mr Puggsly said:
SvennoJ said:

It sure looked like it was going to be a big AAA title, E3 2014
 
The much rumoured Crackdown on Xbox One has been revealed at Microsoft's E3 2014 press conference. No gameplay yet, but plenty of in engine destruction and that classic Crackdown sense of humour remains intact. It looks like it won't be called Crackdown 3 though, with the logo

E3 2015
 

E3 2017
 

E3 2018
 
Finally got the release date right!

When we saw actual gameplay, I think that was a pretty good indication this isn't AAA. The multiplayer on the other hand was more like a tech demo.

Wasting a lot of money on a game doesn't make it AAA. Also, if their goal was a AAA game they wouldn't have gone to Sumo.

Yep, however "It maybe was supposed to be a flagship title for about a second but never was in reality." It was more like 2 or 3 years before we saw actual game play and the cloud promises died down. A bit more than a second...

When it comes to downgrades or backpedaling, Crackdown 3 takes the cake. Watch dogs is nothing compared to the reveal and reality of Crackdown 3. And to think that KZ: Shadowfall got sued for having temporal reconstructive 1080p in multiplayer!



DakonBlackblade on 19 February 2019
Mr Puggsly said:

When we saw actual gameplay, I think that was a pretty good indication this isn't AAA. The multiplayer on the other hand was more like a tech demo.

Wasting a lot of money on a game doesn't make it AAA. Also, if their goal was a AAA game they wouldn't have gone to Sumo.

Well it was suposed to be AAA, it wasted potential, it wasted money and it wasted time. Since the devs were cleary failling at making something that acttualy felt like it was a modern game lets just pretend it was always suposed to be mediocre and give it a pass, cause I'm sure MS wanted nothing more than to release a mediocre game after having only the Forza series for years. As I said its an unexcusable game, sure someone can have fun playing it, but then again some people can have fun playing Knack as well, doesn't mean its a great game. 

Last edited by DakonBlackblade - on 19 February 2019

LudicrousSpeed on 19 February 2019
DonFerrari said:
LudicrousSpeed said:

Idk bro, where did he say this? What was he referring to, exactly? How much control did he have at the time? Was he answering to someone confident in the Xbox brand or was it the guy who didn’t want to spend money on Xbox? What content was there for Microsoft to secure at the time? What studios that they bought recently were available to buy four years ago?

Unless you factually know the answers to these questions and more, you’re talking out of your ass to say he’s a liar. 

So you were away from this forum the last 5 years? I do remember you participating, even on the Spencer's threads.

There were multiple promises of improving 1st party along those years. And here you and others trying to say he can't be blamed for the past 6 years because first it was Don Mattrick fault then it is because he wasn't high on the hierarchy (yes Senior Directors are powerless). So either he is to blame because he had the power but didn't take action or he was lying because he didn't had power to honor the promise. You can't have


 

 


 

 

So the argument was all bark no bite, shocked.



smroadkill15 on 19 February 2019
DonFerrari said:
smroadkill15 said:

Read Ryuu's comment. It sums up perfectly the situation with Xbox. I'm sure if it was up to Phil, he would've improved 1st party presence sooner than he had, but with Xbox still being under the Windows division and Phil having to report to Terry Myerson, he only had so much power. Shortly after Xbox became its own division and Phil became executive VP, Xbox started buying up studios and increasing their 1st party. It's not a coincidence. 

So he was promising before having power to do so?

I'm sure Phil could have done it without being in the position that he is in now, but it would've taken much longer. With him being promoted to VP, and Xbox become it's own cornerstone of MS, it sped up the process. I remember reading from multiple sources, including Phil, he was on a mission to improving services, hardware, and software in that order. That is what he did.