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PS5 Coming at the End of 2020 According to Analyst: High-Spec Hardware for Under $500

Forums - Sony Discussion - PS5 Coming at the End of 2020 According to Analyst: High-Spec Hardware for Under $500

Price, SKUs, specs ?

Only Base Model, $399, 9-10TF GPU, 16GB RAM 18 28.13%
 
Only Base Model, $449, 10-12TF GPU, 16GB RAM 10 15.63%
 
Only Base Model, $499, 12-14TF GPU, 24GB RAM 16 25.00%
 
Base Model $399 and PREMIUM $499 specs Ans3 10 15.63%
 
Base Mod $399 / PREM $549, >14TF 24GB RAM 4 6.25%
 
Base Mod $449 / PREM $599, the absolute Elite 6 9.38%
 
Total:64
Nate4Drake said:

   OK, who of you has enough technical understanding to explain to me the content of a recent PATENT from Mark Cerny, in few basic words ?!   

 From what I have understood, It concerns " the heavy use of caches for GPU operations", in order to greatly speed-up graphics application; give me a break if I'm wrong.

""According to aspects of the present disclosure, a computer graphics processing method may include writing vertex indices output from a vertex shader to a cache; accessing the vertex indices written to the cache with a pixel shader; and accessing vertex parameter values associated with the vertex indices from a memory unit with the pixel shader.""

  https://patents.justia.com/patent/20190035050

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  Plenty of leaks will come out, as expected; some are in line with the expectations of some of us, and the same sound "too much" for others; what I find interesting is discussing about new tech which can be related with Next Gen, I love this.

 

Sounds to me like a way of making the GPU do more than its supposed to do by off loading typical vertex tasks onto a pixel shader. So its not abut the cache per say but abut a way to handle more vertex operations than you are supposed to be able to. Vertex shaders basically transpose the rendered scene(rasterization) to a pixel grid fr your display. Pixel shaders come into play when said grid has been resolved. 

So this sounds like a way to make the vertex tasks faster by enabling the pixel shaders to do some of the work.



Intrinsic said:

 

  1. So third party devs already have dev kits? Or they have a moving target spec. Cause If the PS5 is set to come out anytime next year I don't see devs having dev kits by now.

Maybe I'm not understanding you here, but you dont think dev's should have dev kits in 2019 if the console comes out in 2020? When should they get them then?



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

Intrinsic said:
Nate4Drake said:

Yep.  Cerny already made a step forward with PS4 PRO, so it sounds natural they will continue with that on PS5.   From the "leak" : Memory: 24GB - 20GB GDDR6 at 880Gb/s - 4GB DDR4 reserved for OS; is this kind of solution too costy ?  If you ask me, 20GB GDDR6 at 880Gb/s would be fantastic for gaming, and considering the life cycle has been lengthened lately.   Could be feasible ?  

20GB GDDR6 at 880GB/s isn't feasible to me. That would mean they are pushing the individual chips to 20Gbs. Which doesn't just sound complicated but as doesn't sound stable. Highest I see them going is with 16Gbs chips. Another thing is the cost of making a PCB with a 320bit bus. 

I mean they could do 20GB on a 320bit bus with 16Gbs chips and get 640GB/s and honestly I see that as the highest they would go. As for the OS Ram... anyway we spin it x amount DDR3/DDR4 will always cost less than the same x amount of GDDR6 RAM. So adding 4GB of DDR3/DDR4 will cost less than having 4GB more of GDDR6. And LPDDR4 is even cheaper, its bandwidth peaks at around 32GB/s which is mre than enough to run a OS and OS based apps like netflix, youtube, browsers.....etc. 


  There's also been a recent development which refers to GDDR6: 24GB on a 384bit bus can reach 864 GB/s.

 ""Samsung Officially Begins Mass Production of GDDR6 Memory – Reaching Speeds of Up To 18 Gbps and 16Gb Density To Produce High-End Graphics Cards With Up To 24 GB VRAM, 864 GB/s Bandwidth""

https://wccftech.com/samsung-gddr6-16gb-18gbps-mass-production-official/

 I can't wait for an Official announcement.   It cannot come soon enough.



”Every great dream begins with a dreamer. Always remember, you have within you the strength, the patience, and the passion to reach for the stars to change the world.”

Harriet Tubman.

Nate4Drake said:
Intrinsic said:

20GB GDDR6 at 880GB/s isn't feasible to me. That would mean they are pushing the individual chips to 20Gbs. Which doesn't just sound complicated but as doesn't sound stable. Highest I see them going is with 16Gbs chips. Another thing is the cost of making a PCB with a 320bit bus. 

I mean they could do 20GB on a 320bit bus with 16Gbs chips and get 640GB/s and honestly I see that as the highest they would go. As for the OS Ram... anyway we spin it x amount DDR3/DDR4 will always cost less than the same x amount of GDDR6 RAM. So adding 4GB of DDR3/DDR4 will cost less than having 4GB more of GDDR6. And LPDDR4 is even cheaper, its bandwidth peaks at around 32GB/s which is mre than enough to run a OS and OS based apps like netflix, youtube, browsers.....etc. 


  There's also been a recent development which refers to GDDR6: 24GB on a 384bit bus can reach 864 GB/s.

 ""Samsung Officially Begins Mass Production of GDDR6 Memory – Reaching Speeds of Up To 18 Gbps and 16Gb Density To Produce High-End Graphics Cards With Up To 24 GB VRAM, 864 GB/s Bandwidth""

https://wccftech.com/samsung-gddr6-16gb-18gbps-mass-production-official/

 I can't wait for an Official announcement.   It cannot come soon enough.

Me neither.

This feeling of antecipation for something you really want to know/see is so good haha.

They could tease some specs and show the controller at least until March like they did back in Feb 2013.

Though it is defitinely a 2020 release so they'll likely hold those to post E3.

Wait to see what MS has to say about their next gen console and come with theirs just after that.

Skipping E3 might have been a great idea, if MS goes radio silent with solid data they can do what they want and if MS does show/tell something substantial they can react accordingly (even as Sony play will not radically change based on what MS has to offer, anyway, they already have their major goals settled by now).

Anyway, a console reveal is always so fucking exciting.



I expect the next consoles to be slightly more powerful than the current Pro or the X and target 1080p not 4k.



Nate4Drake said:
Intrinsic said:

20GB GDDR6 at 880GB/s isn't feasible to me. That would mean they are pushing the individual chips to 20Gbs. Which doesn't just sound complicated but as doesn't sound stable. Highest I see them going is with 16Gbs chips. Another thing is the cost of making a PCB with a 320bit bus. 

I mean they could do 20GB on a 320bit bus with 16Gbs chips and get 640GB/s and honestly I see that as the highest they would go. As for the OS Ram... anyway we spin it x amount DDR3/DDR4 will always cost less than the same x amount of GDDR6 RAM. So adding 4GB of DDR3/DDR4 will cost less than having 4GB more of GDDR6. And LPDDR4 is even cheaper, its bandwidth peaks at around 32GB/s which is mre than enough to run a OS and OS based apps like netflix, youtube, browsers.....etc. 


  There's also been a recent development which refers to GDDR6: 24GB on a 384bit bus can reach 864 GB/s.

 ""Samsung Officially Begins Mass Production of GDDR6 Memory – Reaching Speeds of Up To 18 Gbps and 16Gb Density To Produce High-End Graphics Cards With Up To 24 GB VRAM, 864 GB/s Bandwidth""

https://wccftech.com/samsung-gddr6-16gb-18gbps-mass-production-official/

 I can't wait for an Official announcement.   It cannot come soon enough.

I think business wise an announcement this year would be bad.  Unless they're simultaneously cutting PS4 price to $200 as a last surge for this holiday it'll kill sales to say "we've got a new system coming in early/late 2020 and it's only $100 more than our regular system right now."  If I'm the CEO of Sony I'm either doing the price cut and announcement at the same conference (around September is when I would have this conference) or wait until Feb. like they did last time and allow PS4 to be at the forefront of mindshare this holiday one more time.  Then release in September or October to get big first adopter sales in before resupplying for the holidays.



I am Iron Man

zorg1000 said:
Intrinsic said:

 

  1. So third party devs already have dev kits? Or they have a moving target spec. Cause If the PS5 is set to come out anytime next year I don't see devs having dev kits by now.

Maybe I'm not understanding you here, but you dont think dev's should have dev kits in 2019 if the console comes out in 2020? When should they get them then?

Typically devs don't get final Dev kits until like 6 months before launch. PS4 final dev kits were sent out around may 2013. WiiU was may with the console releasing about 6 months later. So if the console is due out in say March 2020 then final kits would be main the rounds around september 2019. 

The devs would get target briefs though or even non finalized dev kits which are pretty much specialized PCs.



Intrinsic said:
zorg1000 said:

Maybe I'm not understanding you here, but you dont think dev's should have dev kits in 2019 if the console comes out in 2020? When should they get them then?

Typically devs don't get final Dev kits until like 6 months before launch. PS4 final dev kits were sent out around may 2013. WiiU was may with the console releasing about 6 months later. So if the console is due out in say March 2020 then final kits would be main the rounds around september 2019. 

The devs would get target briefs though or even non finalized dev kits which are pretty much specialized PCs.

Ok that makes sense now



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

Nate4Drake said:

-PSVR2 in 2020 also,reveal with ps5,big resolution boost probably 2560x1440,120hz,220 field of view,eye tracking,wireless,battery life 4-5 hours,headphones integrated,less motion sickenss,no breaker box,much less cable management,much more focus on VR for aaa games,price around 250$

Sounds a bit too good to be true. I assume that fov is a typo? Would also be a bit surprised to see both the PS5 and PSVR2 release in the same year. Other than that, would be nice.



Intrinsic said:
  1. This will be either a 72CU@1500Mhz GPU or a 80CU@1385Mh. Both configs I believe are possible if lookin at the same kinda progression seen from 28Nm to 16nm and from that to 7nm. Also expected if AMD has broken that 64CU limitation

Or it could be 64CU's @ 1700mhz.

Intrinsic said:
  1. those clocks are high though, which makes me lean towards the 80CU setup as its usually better to have more CUs running at a lower clock than less at a higher clock. It would also suggest that Navi is very efficient, we have nvidia cards that clock as high as 2Ghz and there are rumblings that desktop Navi cards should be expected to clock that high..... so a downclocked Navi at ~1300Mhz down from 1800-2000Mhz doesn't sound outta reason.

Not always better to have more CU's running at a lower clock than less CU's at a higher clock.

Vega 7 has less CU's than Vega 64 and yet offers a substantial uptick in performance.

The thing to keep in mind is that the entire chip runs at the core clockrate or a tied multiplier of it... Throwing more CU's at the problem doesn't increase things like ROP performance which is super important... But clockspeed does.

Plus Graphics Core Next tends to be ROP and Geometry starved... So Clockrates help with that.

It also helps keep the chips small... So if 7nm has good clocking characteristics, but poor yields with larger chip sizes, then having a smaller CU count but higher clockrates will make the chips more economical. (Sometimes the reverse holds true as well though, depends on the process.)

Navi isn't likely to change how poorly inefficient Graphics Core Next is though... AMD had big promises with Vega... Then Polaris before that... But at the end of the day, Graphics Core Next is still Graphics Core Next with all it's Pro's and Con's.

Navi to me isn't next-generation graphics technology.

Intrinsic said:
  1. I expect the 4GB DDR4 OS RAM. I don't know about the 24GB GDDR6 though..... thats either 672GB/s (14Gbs chips), 768GB/s (16Gbs chips) or 864GB/s (1 Gbs chips)  

I think Microsoft will opt for a single DRAM pool to keep complexity down... That way when higher density DRAM chips come out they can take advantage of that, besides their Operating Systems tend to have the edge over the other console manufacturers in terms of memory consumption anyway.

Sony though may see what they did well with the Playstation 4.. And go down a similar route and include an additional DRAM pool+ARM CPU cluster.

Should be interesting either way.

Nate4Drake said:

Believe me, I was very close to quote you on this :D   I've been thinking about your post and specs prediction.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

   OK, who of you has enough technical understanding to explain to me the content of a recent PATENT from Mark Cerny, in few basic words ?!   

 From what I have understood, It concerns " the heavy use of caches for GPU operations", in order to greatly speed-up graphics application; give me a break if I'm wrong.

""According to aspects of the present disclosure, a computer graphics processing method may include writing vertex indices output from a vertex shader to a cache; accessing the vertex indices written to the cache with a pixel shader; and accessing vertex parameter values associated with the vertex indices from a memory unit with the pixel shader.""

  https://patents.justia.com/patent/20190035050

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  Plenty of leaks will come out, as expected; some are in line with the expectations of some of us, and the same sound "too much" for others; what I find interesting is discussing about new tech which can be related to Next Gen, I love this.

Could be primitive shader related... It's pretty ambiguous either way and I wouldn't read to much into it right now.

Nate4Drake said:

  There's also been a recent development which refers to GDDR6: 24GB on a 384bit bus can reach 864 GB/s.

 ""Samsung Officially Begins Mass Production of GDDR6 Memory – Reaching Speeds of Up To 18 Gbps and 16Gb Density To Produce High-End Graphics Cards With Up To 24 GB VRAM, 864 GB/s Bandwidth""

https://wccftech.com/samsung-gddr6-16gb-18gbps-mass-production-official/

 I can't wait for an Official announcement.   It cannot come soon enough.

Still very much doubt we will get anything more than 16Gbps chips on a 256bit bus... Cost is still an important factor with consoles... I wouldn't be surprised if they leveraged a crossbar either to that end.