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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - GameXplain: 10 Lessons that 2D Mario can learn from Donkey Kong: Tropical Freeze

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Moren on 14 January 2019

I really should rebuy Tropical Freeze for the Switch someday. Truly amazing title.

When he mentioned multiplayer for a Mario merit, even that is questionable. Why? One of the several reasons Tropical Freeze destroys NSMBU is because it was designed as a single-player game from the get-go. 2D Mario won't ever be top tier level so long as it remains a multiplayer game.

Last edited by Moren - on 14 January 2019

curl-6 on 14 January 2019

I've been saying this since DKCR showed up NSMBWii nearly a decade ago.

NSMBU is just an abominably bland, lazy, unimaginative game. From its copy-paste assets and level themes, to its ear-bleeding music, its a showcase of how lazy Nintendo can be when they know they can get away with it. The fact its being sold again in 2019 for full price is just disgusting.



Moren on 14 January 2019
cycycychris said:
morenoingrato said:

I really should rebuy Tropical Freeze for the Switch someday. Truly amazing title.

When he mentioned multiplayer for a Mario merit, even that is questionable. Why? One of the several reasons Tropical Freeze destroys NSMBU is because it was designed as a single-player game from the get-go. 2D Mario won't ever be top tier level so long as it remains a multiplayer game.

Since DK does let you do 2 people, technically Mario can be said 'does it better.'  Even NSMBU has a few levels that were specially designed for only 1 person and don't work with multiplayer. I played DK only in multiplayer and I'd say its perfect the way it is, your friend won't be able to do some sections, but thats fine. I wouldn't change it to be more multiplayer friendly.

My point was more that it was a questionable merit to have. The multiplayer is what holds NSMB back.



Metallox on 14 January 2019

Modern 2D Mario doesn't really need to learn anything, it just needs to be priced at a lower price.



My bet with The_Liquid_Laser: I think the Switch won't surpass the PS2 as the best selling system of all time. If it does, I'll play a game of a list that The_Liquid_Laser will provide, I will have to play it for 50 hours or complete it, whatever comes first. 

Kai_Mao on 15 January 2019
curl-6 said:

I've been saying this since DKCR showed up NSMBWii nearly a decade ago.

NSMBU is just an abominably bland, lazy, unimaginative game. From its copy-paste assets and level themes, to its ear-bleeding music, its a showcase of how lazy Nintendo can be when they know they can get away with it. The fact its being sold again in 2019 for full price is just disgusting.

I guess in terms of fan reception and lasting impact, you may have a point.

But it's kinda hard to say "showed up" when the Metacritic scores are similar and the sales are...still in NSMBWii's advantage even without the bundles.

I get people have issue with the pricing (like they did with DKTF, Bayonetta 1 and 2, Pokken DX, among other Wii U ports). But if it sells, Nintendo will continue releasing those ports at full price. Of course, people will say its Mario so it'll sell well anyway when there have been examples that shows it's not always the case.



curl-6 on 15 January 2019
Kai_Mao said:
curl-6 said:

I've been saying this since DKCR showed up NSMBWii nearly a decade ago.

NSMBU is just an abominably bland, lazy, unimaginative game. From its copy-paste assets and level themes, to its ear-bleeding music, its a showcase of how lazy Nintendo can be when they know they can get away with it. The fact its being sold again in 2019 for full price is just disgusting.

I guess in terms of fan reception and lasting impact, you may have a point.

But it's kinda hard to say "showed up" when the Metacritic scores are similar and the sales are...still in NSMBWii's advantage even without the bundles.

I get people have issue with the pricing (like they did with DKTF, Bayonetta 1 and 2, Pokken DX, among other Wii U ports). But if it sells, Nintendo will continue releasing those ports at full price. Of course, people will say its Mario so it'll sell well anyway when there have been examples that shows it's not always the case.

Sales are hardly a good measuring stick of craftsmanship. Just off the top of my head, Just Dance 3 sold more than Super Mario Galaxy 2. As for Metacritic, it basically just puts the opinions of a small few on a pedestal. 

Last edited by curl-6 - on 15 January 2019

Clank on 15 January 2019

In my opinion they shouldve released some nsmb and mario maker together, i played nsmb for wii and it was crazy fun and the multiplayer too, but as they sold 30M maybe they just got lazy on the following one. The port is just late in my opinion, last year maybe when there were no big titlea announced (spring end winter)... Still i could play the one for wii u so im thinking of gettig it... I guess i can just wait for it to become cheaper



Jumpin on 15 January 2019
cycycychris said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iORdCuz2vtE

1. Too much downtime.
 2. Make every level distinct.
 3. Have a better soundtrack.
 4. Context.
 5. Characters with personality
 6. Have a level of Surprise within levels
 7. Have narrative within the levels
 8. Give better controls
 9. Have better rewards
 10. Better artstyle

You'll have to watch the video to hear the explanations for each

This video is so spot on about NSMBU, its infinitely inferior to Tropical Freeze. The level design, atmosphere, character, music, basically everything is better in Tropical Freeze. the only thing NSMBU does better is mutliplayer. I hope Nintendo will look at Tropical freeze when making the next Mario to help advance this series. Level designs are feeling bland, the art style is dated, basically the series is in urgent need for a revamp.

What do you guys think about the suggestions in the video and how to improve the 2D mario series

You could have replaced the title with "Shovel Knight" or "Kirby's Epic Yarn" or about 3 dozen platformers from last year, and literally make all the same points.

But 2D Mario seems to have found a large market, so they don't really need to change anything.

And NSMB multiplayer trashes the new DKC trilogy spinoffs



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

Vodacixi on 15 January 2019
curl-6 said:
Kai_Mao said:

I guess in terms of fan reception and lasting impact, you may have a point.

But it's kinda hard to say "showed up" when the Metacritic scores are similar and the sales are...still in NSMBWii's advantage even without the bundles.

I get people have issue with the pricing (like they did with DKTF, Bayonetta 1 and 2, Pokken DX, among other Wii U ports). But if it sells, Nintendo will continue releasing those ports at full price. Of course, people will say its Mario so it'll sell well anyway when there have been examples that shows it's not always the case.

Sales are hardly a good measuring stick of craftsmanship. Just off the top of my head, Just Dance 2011 sold more than Super Mario Galaxy 2. As for Metacritic, it basically just puts the opinions of a small few on a pedestal. 

I just wanted to say that Just Dance 3 is actually the best in the series. A great dancing game if you ask me, with a superb selection of songs that balance old classics and new stuff and pretty cool and fun coreographies.

Of course, Galaxy 2 is overall the better game and of course, your point is still true... But I don't know, I felt like you used this comparison because Just Dance is a dancing game and by  the definition of most so called "gamers" is not in the same league as Galaxy 2. I might be wrong on you though...



curl-6 on 15 January 2019
Vodacixi said:
curl-6 said:

Sales are hardly a good measuring stick of craftsmanship. Just off the top of my head, Just Dance 2011 sold more than Super Mario Galaxy 2. As for Metacritic, it basically just puts the opinions of a small few on a pedestal. 

I just wanted to say that Just Dance 3 is actually the best in the series. A great dancing game if you ask me, with a superb selection of songs that balance old classics and new stuff and pretty cool and fun coreographies.

Of course, Galaxy 2 is overall the better game and of course, your point is still true... But I don't know, I felt like you used this comparison because Just Dance is a dancing game and by  the definition of most so called "gamers" is not in the same league as Galaxy 2. I might be wrong on you though...

I'm not opposed to the Just Dance games, but in terms of craftsmanship they're hardly in Galaxy 2's league, is all I meant.