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Forums - Sales Discussion - Global Hardware 15 December 2018

AngryLittleAlchemist said:

Let's just be honest, the age range for the PS4/Xbox One and the Switch is largely the same. Nintendo might have a higher percentage of the extremely young market, like the 4-7 year olds, but with the gaming industry being bigger and gaming becoming more and more normalized ... I think that something like COD and Grand Theft Auto appeals to kids just as much as Mario and Zelda. When I moved into my current neighborhood 10 years ago, my neighbor had a kid who was like 4-6. He didn't play Nintendo games, all he played was Call of Duty and Battlefield Bad Company 2. Anecdotal, yes, but I think we're starting to see M rated games become more and more adopted by the 8+ crowd. 

I think the global audience of the Switch is older than PS4 or Xbox One



SKMBlake said:
AngryLittleAlchemist said:

Let's just be honest, the age range for the PS4/Xbox One and the Switch is largely the same. Nintendo might have a higher percentage of the extremely young market, like the 4-7 year olds, but with the gaming industry being bigger and gaming becoming more and more normalized ... I think that something like COD and Grand Theft Auto appeals to kids just as much as Mario and Zelda. When I moved into my current neighborhood 10 years ago, my neighbor had a kid who was like 4-6. He didn't play Nintendo games, all he played was Call of Duty and Battlefield Bad Company 2. Anecdotal, yes, but I think we're starting to see M rated games become more and more adopted by the 8+ crowd. 

I think the global audience of the Switch is older than PS4 or Xbox One

How do you back up that statement? Im not saying that you are wrong, because despite  having more family friendly games there are a lot of Nostalgic old Nintendo fans that keep on buying their consoles. But seeing how Nintendo lost its market share on Home consoles taking away the case of the Wii, I guess some other group is buying the switch due to the enormous number of sales. So I don´t understand how you can get to that conclusion. 



CrazyGPU said:
SKMBlake said:

I think the global audience of the Switch is older than PS4 or Xbox One

How do you back up that statement? Im not saying that you are wrong, because despite  having more family friendly games there are a lot of Nostalgic old Nintendo fans that keep on buying their consoles. But seeing how Nintendo lost its market share on Home consoles taking away the case of the Wii, I guess some other group is buying the switch due to the enormous number of sales. So I don´t understand how you can get to that conclusion. 

It's the same statement as "nobody knew what the Wii U was - a new console and not a tablet for the wii". In many places around the world, I did face the same fact: a great part of Switch buyers are young (or not really young anymore) adults who can't play on tv a regular console, because of work or kids, or other stuff. And the Switch offers an instant wake-up and play experience that no other device offers. That's a huge deal which appeals more to adults who like playing games than kids and teen who have plenty of time playing games.

And it's funny to see that some PC-only gamers buy a Switch, but are allergic to other consoles.



0D0 said:
DonFerrari said:

Yep, Nintendo on Switch or next gen could certainly take more steps to dispute the market more directly, not sure it would benefit them as their best sellers came from not going for the same market (Wii, the handhelds and Switch which we are discussing if is direct or not).

General rule on VGC. If you are being positive you don't need any justification or explanation. But if you are being negative you need to justify to not become just trolling or flaming.

Didn't see this research before. If it still holds WW it can lead to two conclusions, either it's a secondary device due to portability and Nintendo exclusives or Switch is indeed in direct competition (but on this the problem of low impact in the others still holds). Anyway it's good and relevant new. The fact that PS4/X1 have over 5 years in the market and neering saturation may explain a lot of their owners buying Switch as well. If sales curve of the 3 keep general shape them we won't have an answer until next gen (Wii also had a lot of sales from being secondary platform, that didn't translate to sales on WiiU).

That's quite a good rule, makes sense.

I'm just not quite convinced about stating that "Nintendo is not competing directly" as a negative statement.

I don't think it is, but some people are more sensible than others.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

CrazyGPU said:
CGI-Quality said:

Without a justification/reasoning, it more reeks of a distaste for the platform rather than a mere feeling that it is 'just another device' in a vacuum of the market. No matter what picture you paint, an argument can be made that it is in direct competition with other devices fighting for people's dollars in an enclosed space. The counter argument can be made, most certainly, but you need to be prepared to back it up (especially considering where you are ~ a site dedicated to sales). It would be like someone being brought up on criminal charges without basis. No evidence/witnesses, etc, etc... People wouldn't (nor shouldn't) take that seriously and would rightfully cause backlash. Same principle applies here. 

Despite I never posted again since page 38, I was banned after this post on page 40, without warning or explanation. 

I only posted that the switch was on indirect competition, explaining exactly why and backing it up.

It´s like talking about if Call of Duty and Splatoon are direct competitors or not for your dollars. I guess nobody is going to be banned because of that right?.

I got accussed of  having dark thinking and wanting to degrade Nintendo without justification and nothing happened to those people. 

What moderators could achieve with this kind of behaviour was to kill the thread or at least the good exchange of ideas. When this page was reached ,(42), nobody wrote anything more until now. 

Maybe I´ll be banned because of this too without reason again, but I have to say this because I love to write about ideas and back them up, I like to discuss without insulting and describe not only the good but the bad from every system (Despite in this case there is not good or bad, just an argument about the nature of a console and the markets where its succesfull)

Like when in a sport game, the umpire became more important than the game. That shouldn´t happen, it´s no good. Not good for the writers, and no good for VGCharts forum.

 

Edit: Just in case, also it was mention that calling the switch a casual thing was downgrading it. In my case, I didn´t say that the switch was casual at all.

I don´t think it is. I even think that it brought more core players than the other 2 consoles behind it. What I did say that the Wii was for a casual and family market, and I think that is true and quite diferent. There were never such a broad audiece with videogames as the Wii had. 

 

 

 

I just read the reason of the ban. I was accused of trolling because of answering a post. The only thing I find in my post that is kind of trolling is this line.

 

"10- I corrected  myself, not a duck, people wrote that ducks fly well, Switch is a chicken and PS4 pro and Xbox one X are eagles or falcons. ;)"

In some countries the word chicken has the meaning of coward, I learned from "Back to the future" movie. Not where I live, but in any case that can offend some Nintendo fans, so it can be call as trolling. My mistake there.

What I was trying to post in a more funny way, was that the switch can be played like a home console or like a mobile device, but the home console experience doesn´ have all the bells and whistles that other consoles have graphically speaking. The other consoles on the other side can show that much better but without the posibility of playing on the go. So sorry for the word if somebody got ofended by that. 

The other issue that can be called trolling is calling Nintendo Greedy , but I think it is and backed up why I call it that. Because their consoles are cheaper to make, for example the cpu is Nvidia 2015s Shield CPU, the screen is not AMOLED or top of the class and the games are cheaper to make because of a lower resolution and lower quality textures and other things in order to run on a mobile chip (as stated, by NVIDIA for tablets). They still charge 300 USS for switch and 60 for the games, and I think its a lot. There also don´t discount its games so much. 
Not only Nintendo. Microsoft was greedy when lauched XBOX One and had it consecuences. Sony is greedy with PS classic software and is having them too. So in that case I don´t think it can be called trolling.

Besides that I still think that the thread and exchange of ideas was being killed because of strong moderation and showed by the other people being critic about that.



I don't think it's far fetched to speculate that the Switch's audience is on average older than that of PS4/Xbone. Kids mostly want to play what their older siblings/peers are playing, hence M-rated games like Call of Duty and GTA being swamped by preteens. At that age, the desire to emulate adulthood is a normal part of the maturation process. To a lot of kids aged, say 10-18, (or even older than 18 in some cases) they want nothing to do with things seen as "kiddy" and only want to play "grownup" stuff, hence they ask their parents for a PS4 or an Xbox One instead of a Switch cos those are seen as the serious systems for grownups.

There comes a time later in the maturation process however where most people realize that trying to be grownup is in fact a trait of adolescence, not maturity, and that grownups play whatever they damn well please, be it E rated or R rated. As such, people who have reached true maturity are more likely to want a Switch than an adolescent.

Look at Switch's advertising; it's primarily geared towards hip urban professionals in their late twenties and thirties. The very design of the system is geared towards adults with a busy work life who need to squeeze in their gaming when they can between their job, looking after kids, etc.

Let us also remember that those who grew up with old school Nintendo in the 80s and 90s are approaching middle age now; the Switch is drawing a lot of these "lapsed" older fans back in by taking franchises like Zelda and 3D Mario back to their roots and providing more attractive hardware that an older fan wouldn't scoff at the way they did with Wii U.



CGI-Quality said:
CrazyGPU said:

If you'd like to discuss the ban, send us an email at vgchartzmods@gmail.com or PM me directly. Please refrain from posting about it any further in here.

Most the time e-mail I send to vgchartzmods@gmail.com takes like a week to get replied.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

CGI-Quality said:
DonFerrari said:

Most the time e-mail I send to vgchartzmods@gmail.com takes like a week to get replied.

You also have the option of PM'ing a mod, but, again, we're dropping it here.

Yep, when it's important I do.

And also I agree regular threads aren't the place to complain on moderation.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Lol, This week sales thread is huge. I didn't notice that.



curl-6 said:

I don't think it's far fetched to speculate that the Switch's audience is on average older than that of PS4/Xbone. Kids mostly want to play what their older siblings/peers are playing, hence M-rated games like Call of Duty and GTA being swamped by preteens. At that age, the desire to emulate adulthood is a normal part of the maturation process. To a lot of kids aged, say 10-18, (or even older than 18 in some cases) they want nothing to do with things seen as "kiddy" and only want to play "grownup" stuff, hence they ask their parents for a PS4 or an Xbox One instead of a Switch cos those are seen as the serious systems for grownups.

There comes a time later in the maturation process however where most people realize that trying to be grownup is in fact a trait of adolescence, not maturity, and that grownups play whatever they damn well please, be it E rated or R rated. As such, people who have reached true maturity are more likely to want a Switch than an adolescent.

Look at Switch's advertising; it's primarily geared towards hip urban professionals in their late twenties and thirties. The very design of the system is geared towards adults with a busy work life who need to squeeze in their gaming when they can between their job, looking after kids, etc.

Let us also remember that those who grew up with old school Nintendo in the 80s and 90s are approaching middle age now; the Switch is drawing a lot of these "lapsed" older fans back in by taking franchises like Zelda and 3D Mario back to their roots and providing more attractive hardware that an older fan wouldn't scoff at the way they did with Wii U.

You are quite right to speculate but that's all it is, unless someone does a comprehensive survey. what is known is the Playstation began the rise of the 18 -30 year old demographic and this was further entrenched with the xbox, so you had games aimed at a generation coming up from  the nes snes era  and those gamers combining with a slightly older demographic coming  from home computers who with the demise of C64 Amiga/Amstrad etc were looking for a new outlet to continue their gaming that was cheaper than PC. these were all drivers toward gaming no longer being seen as largely the domain of children, this change didn't come without its faults it put games and companies into boxes labeled kiddie or adult .Today we are  a mature medium that caters for all ages even though some ignorant media and politicians would lead you to believe otherwise, just look at the proposed tax on M rated games. Now as you mentioned  gaming is old enough that having several generations gaming from the one family isn't uncommon and people are shaped by their youth, most people who loved (insert your media of chose) in their childhood retain that throughout life. Whether they are coming back to Nintendo because of the Switch who knows, general consensus for  the Wii seemed to be casual gamers attracted by the controls where the main reason for the expansion beyond the 20- 30 mill range of the previous consoles, whatever the reason history will show  Nintendo's decision forced or not,to face up to the age of mobile media by bringing together the Software under one umbrella lead by the Switch was a master stroke.

Last edited by mjk45 - on 09 February 2019

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