MrWayne said:
Since when is it a principles of democracy that results can't be overturned by a follow-up election? I would even say that it is a principle of democracy that results can be overturned by follow-up elections, it happens all the time, you elect your parliament every four years and new governments overturn decisions made by the previous government (Trump overturned obamacare, Merkle overturned the decision to pull out of nuklear-elekticity when she came to power, etc). Sometimes you even have to vote until you get a good result, If the political parties in Germany fail to form a government after an election the citizens have to vote again, The british parliament is currently in a pretty similar situation, they don't want to stay in the EU, they don't want a no-deal scenario and they don't want May's deal, that's a typical deadlock.
Also what if a majority of the british people don't want the Brexit anymore? How would you justify Brexit then? A second referendum could clarify if the people still want the Brexit and if so what kind of Brexit.
|
@Bold Then explain where the end sight would be in holding endless elections ? The people who 'support' the "result of the first referendum" but then calls for another immediate second referendum are loaded with nothing but horseshit to plot on overturning the result ...
"Fixed terms" is not the equivalent of 'overturning' the result so that's just an invalid comparison right there. Depending on the structure of the government, executive orders or bills can be 'repealed' but as far as but as far as "elections/referendums" are concerned these are things that cannot be 'overturned' in principle and for a very good reason within history since the slave states that feverishly opposed the ascension Abraham Lincoln got their asses kicked in end. Any liberal democracy that are worth their salt will make good on their commitments to their own people otherwise they face the wrath of a possible civil war. It has been a sacred tradition in liberal democracies to follow with the result instead of opposing it for nearly the last 100 years and it took a civil war in what is currently one of the greatest civilizations of all time to see why it wrong to discard it but to even suggest that the people keep voting until they get a 'good' result is absolutely preposterous and shortsighted ... (the point of democracy is that the people don't know what a 'good' result is since that's entirely a matter of opinion even with a consensus so that is not a justification for defiling the integrity of democracy)
Also despite what the pundits out there say, no Trump did not repeal Obamacare and is in fact still the law currently. As for Merkel, no she wasn't responsible for decommissioning nuclear energy. It was the previous chancellor, Gerhard Shroder which put forth a law into decommissioning nuclear energy. Merkel only extradited the process after Fukushima meltdown ...
As for German elections, only the president can call for new elections but they also have the power to reject potential laws, however are these actions acceptable when they are supposed to hold a ceremonial role like a monarch ?
As for your last lines I could coax you into a similar question. How do you know that the majority of the british people still want EU membership and is democracy ever to be settled with successive votes ?
Ka-pi96 said:
What a load of bullshit.
If you actually believe any of that then you obviously don't like democracy. Nothing wrong with that though, democracy is pretty shitty. But to say all that while pretending to like democracy? That's just hilarious.
|
That's some mighty strong cognitive dissonance even coming from you, Kapi ...
There is no democracy without following the result. Both are inseparable so you either take them both in or you get shit in the end, tough call there ...
End of dialogue anyways since you obviously don't like democracy very much when you proclaim it's "pretty shitty" so there's nothing more to explain to you and I'm not pretending to like democracy in what I'm saying. I'm only trying to present a case for the justification of it where a mandate (Leave in this instance) is compelled to take action so don't even offer the premise that holding another vote before a previous resolution is yet to be in act is proclaimed 'democratic' ...
The Leavers also gave the Conservative Party the mandate to serve Brexit as well and even the opposition is resisting calls to back a second referendum ...
Bofferbrauer2 said:
That's pure bullshit. So you're not allowed to vote twice about something? You are aware there were already 2 Brexit votes before 2016? By your own theory there shouldn't have been yet another Brexit vote
Or, even worse, that after an election all Ministers, mayors and other politicians voted into office would be elected for life as no second vote is allowed by your rules.
|
Instead of shit posting why don't you actually try being constructive for once ?
I've never claimed that in a democracy you're not allowed to ever revisit an issue but my biggest gripe with the claim that a democracy is somehow 'delivered' with a second referendum is stupid since a democracy can only be considered to be 'delivered' AFTER the result is implemented ...
For all I could care there could be a third vote on Brexit but don't you dare cheat them out so soon on what they've voted for when the Leavers waited an agonizing 43 YEARS to see the result they've wanted. If you truly support people changing their minds then you need to see to it that those once young people like us today who were probably once supporters of remaining in the EEC during 1975 have their wishes served. Just as the Leavers have paid down over 40 years of their life for this moment to get rid of an experiment that they didn't end up liking, it is time for the Remainers to now pay their dues back to democracy by respecting the result of the original referendum ...
It is the old folks who voted to keep Britain in the project but it is also in their power to vote Britain out of the project and take the rest of the nation in the direction they want so you need to stop being in denial over it ...
It's as a famous politician once proclaimed, "elections have consequences" so it goes both ways in a democracy where you don't always get the result you want and this applies to representatives as well where they at the very least have a mandate to serve their terms ...
If you somehow got the impression that democracy is just about only having a single vote then you thought wrong, my argument is about implementing the result ...