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Are there female incels?



 Anyway, the basic ideology of this particular section of men's rights activists is that sex is a right owed to men by women, and therefore rejection is unacceptable; that we have no right to refuse. No right to an autonomous will of our own.

Theynthink this and then wonder why no one wants them. They are just pathetic beyond all reason. Also, life does not revolve around sex.



Mr.Playstation said:
Nymeria said:
I've been asked out by men hundred times, rarely ever made the first move. 

Is this true or simply an exaggeration? Does it ever get annoying?

It's true and likely conservative estimate over a decade.  Annoying varies depending on setting and the guy.  If I am out with group of friends I have to figure it will happen once over the course of an evening.  It's gone way down since I can flash the old "ring of monogamy", but yes, in my 20s we could just go out on a Saturday and fully expect several guys to try at a  given bar or club.  It only gets annoying when they cannot take a "no" failing to read body language and social cues. You try not to be mean, but some guys keep "come on baby" and then have to assert you're not interested and get called a bitch.  It distorts reality in dating because douchebags can ruin an evening while a desirable guy either doesn't go out or doesn't approach.  I met my husband randomly at a book store and it felt more natural because we weren't thinking about it, just ended up striking a conversation and then evolved into the arcade (I won at DDR by the way...) and a dinner date.  I doubt he ever would have been at a club or asked me out at a bar.



Thank you everyone for your thoughts! There have been lots of smart points made. The main takeaway for me so far, as four different people have raised this in various ways, is that the real root of this issue is the general expectation that men should have a partner at all times, while a woman who is too sexually active, by contrast, will tend to be stigmatized for it. That makes a lot of sense and rings true to me. I think the main thing here is that we need to challenge those expectations.

Last edited by Jaicee - on 24 May 2018

Jaicee said:

Thank you everyone for your thoughts! There have been lots of smart points made. The main takeaway for me so far, as four different people have raised this in various ways, is that the real root of this issue is the general expectation that men should have a partner at all times, while a woman who is too sexually active, by contrast, will tend to be stigmatized for it. That makes a lot of sense and rings true to me. I think the main thing here is that we need to challenge those expectations.

That'd be nice as those expectations can be quite destructive for both men and women.



Jaicee said:

Thank you everyone for your thoughts! There have been lots of smart points made. The main takeaway for me so far, as four different people have raised this in various ways, is that the real root of this issue is the general expectation that men should have a partner at all times, while a woman who is too sexually active, by contrast, will tend to be stigmatized for it. That makes a lot of sense and rings true to me. I think the main thing here is that we need to challenge those expectations.

When discussing the sexes the challenge I see these days is to convey that we're in this together and gains are not zero sum in nature.  Feminism was about, and should be, promoting equality and seeing areas where our male counterparts are suffering.  We've had a long history of struggle through discrimination, we should seek to be better than the model of the past.

If we're fighting, we will all fail.  If we cooperate, we can make society better for everyone.



Nymeria said:
 

When discussing the sexes the challenge I see these days is to convey that we're in this together and gains are not zero sum in nature.  Feminism was about, and should be, promoting equality and seeing areas where our male counterparts are suffering.  We've had a long history of struggle through discrimination, we should seek to be better than the model of the past.

If we're fighting, we will all fail.  If we cooperate, we can make society better for everyone.

I feel that the formulation above loses something important, indeed defining, about feminism: women!

Feminism, as the term suggests, is about liberating women from patriarchal social relations. It's not about making men feel better or apologizing for having won some reforms and agreeing to compromise them away. It's not a men's movement for women. It isn't #NotYourShield or #NotAllMen. I just think we need to remember that.

The onus of preventing misogynistic violence such as we are discussing here is not on us as women. It is on those who commit it and on a culture that promotes the corresponding mindset that led thereto. I think there are ways in which men can benefit from the changing of such a culture, yes. In the long run. In secondary ways that cost many special privileges. But I just think we need to remember who the women's movement is primarily for, not just who it may benefit eventually by proxy effect.

Last edited by Jaicee - on 24 May 2018

Jaicee said:
Nymeria said:

When discussing the sexes the challenge I see these days is to convey that we're in this together and gains are not zero sum in nature.  Feminism was about, and should be, promoting equality and seeing areas where our male counterparts are suffering.  We've had a long history of struggle through discrimination, we should seek to be better than the model of the past.

If we're fighting, we will all fail.  If we cooperate, we can make society better for everyone.

I feel that the formulation above loses something important, indeed defining, about feminism: women!

Feminism, as the term suggests, is about liberating women from patriarchal social relations. It's not about making men feel better or apologizing for having won some reforms and agreeing to compromise them away. It's not a men's movement for women. It isn't #NotYourShield or #NotAllMen. I just think we need to remember that.

The onus of preventing misogynistic violence such as we are discussing here is not on us as women. It is on those who commit it and on a culture that promotes the corresponding mindset that led thereto. I think there are ways in which men can benefit from the changing of such a culture, yes. In the long run. In secondary ways that cost many special privileges. But I just think we need to remember who the women's movement is primarily for, not just who it may benefit eventually by proxy effect.

Well, unfortunately though there are men who just cannot be swayed by the advantages that it gives to women, so if it comes to it we may have to inform them of the advantages, especially if you're trying to speak to a primarily male demographic. In getting rid of the stereotypes for women it will hopefully lead to the elimination of stereotypes for men too, and those that are considered "weak" or "feminine" in today's standards will be much more comfortable. Also, with women being able to reach their full potential, we'll hopefully also get many more ideas, inventions and improvements that we wouldn't be able to get otherwise.



Jaicee said:
Nymeria said:

When discussing the sexes the challenge I see these days is to convey that we're in this together and gains are not zero sum in nature.  Feminism was about, and should be, promoting equality and seeing areas where our male counterparts are suffering.  We've had a long history of struggle through discrimination, we should seek to be better than the model of the past.

If we're fighting, we will all fail.  If we cooperate, we can make society better for everyone.

I feel that the formulation above loses something important, indeed defining, about feminism: women!

Feminism, as the term suggests, is about liberating women from patriarchal social relations. It's not about making men feel better or apologizing for having won some reforms and agreeing to compromise them away. It's not a men's movement for women. It isn't #NotYourShield or #NotAllMen. I just think we need to remember that.

The onus of preventing misogynistic violence such as we are discussing here is not on us as women. It is on those who commit it and on a culture that promotes the corresponding mindset that led thereto. I think there are ways in which men can benefit from the changing of such a culture, yes. In the long run. In secondary ways. But I just think we need to remember who the women's movement is primarily for, not just who it may benefit eventually by proxy effect.

I am grateful for the victories feminist won and I will never apologize for seeing it as progress.  I dealt with deeply patriarchal structures growing up, the kind with 19th century mentalities on women.

I never excused the end behavior, ultimately if a guy calls me a cunt or threatens to rape me or gropes me I don't much care about his background, he should be held accountability for his words and actions.  

I have spent a lot of time in my life helping women and been part of groups that support them. I know very well the challenges we still face as a society.

My point is how we achieve the next step of progress.  We don't compromise an inch on what we want as women, but we can work with men.  We're not conquering them, we're asking for equal treatment and opportunity.  I've found you win a lot more people over to the cause framing it this way and I never want to be like the men I knew growing up who told me over and over how my sex was a deficiency that limited my potential.  We can do better, we are not like the patriarchs.



If you think it's bad now - between China and India there are currently more than 70 million more men than women.

History says one thing very clearly - when the numbers get that lopsided - it leads to war. Not 'perhaps' - but every time.