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Forums - Sports Discussion - The Pro Wrasslin' Thread (WWE, WWF, WCW, TNA, ROH, NWA, NJPW, etc)

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What match are you excited for at WWE Payback 2017?

Neville vs. Austin Aries ... 1 5.88%
 
Randy Orton vs. Bray Wyat... 3 17.65%
 
The Hardy Boyz vs. Cesaro... 3 17.65%
 
Kevin Owens vs. Chris Jer... 4 23.53%
 
Bayley vs. Alexa Bliss (Raw Women's Title) 3 17.65%
 
Seth Rollins vs. Samoa Joe 1 5.88%
 
Roman Reigns vs. Braun Strowman 2 11.76%
 
Total:17

With all the talk about AEW letting wrestlers shine, it's a bit confusing to see Shawn Spears lose in about 10 seconds (at least he's progressed from getting beat by double amputees in his debut), Jay Lethal being MIA for 30 days after his signing, Andrade doing nothing of note (although is he having Visa issues or something?), Christian Cage being third banana to Jungle Boy, and Jake Haggar doing nothing but standing behind Jericho looking mean for about three years, and hottest free agent in Wrestling Tony Nese going from being on WWE's third tier show nobody watched to being on AEW's third rate show nobody watches. The track record of people who hadn't been used well elsewhere being stars in AEW is mixed, at best. Some people who were already big names elsewhere (Danielson, Moxley, Sting, Jericho), are arguably being used better in AEW but in terms of people who were not being pushed as stars in other places being pushed as stars in AEW, it seems like a case of counting the hits (Ruby Soho, maybe Malakai Black, Pac) and ignoring the misses (mostly everyone else).



Yup.

I think they've almost overloaded on talent.

Need a proper "B" show when they get a consistent enough audience to accommodate for it.

Brand split is very wwe, I know but it works really well when done right.



ironmanDX said:

Yup.

I think they've almost overloaded on talent.

Need a proper "B" show when they get a consistent enough audience to accommodate for it.

Brand split is very wwe, I know but it works really well when done right.

I don't think they need a second brand. They need to establish AEW as a brand before they can worry about establishing Rampage or Dynamite on their own. They just need to hire less people and have someone who knows how to book booking them. Throwing everyone into a stable isn't the way. And prioritizing the right people. Daniel Garcia shouldn't be getting more time than Powerhouse Hobbes. And I can't figure out for the life of me why Riho is getting screen time at all.

BasilZero said:

Yeah that Shawn Spears vs CM Punk match was mind boggling.

Made him look as much of a joke as he was in WWE...

It was more confusing because last time we saw Punk, he got powerbombed like 20 times by Wardlow... So, if ever there was a time for Spears to look competitive, it was then. Have him immediately go for Punk's back. Having Punk come out looking fresh as a Daisy and beating Spears in 10 seconds not only makes Spears look like shit, but takes away from what Wardlow did. Not sure what it accomplished.



JWeinCom said:

With all the talk about AEW letting wrestlers shine, it's a bit confusing to see Shawn Spears lose in about 10 seconds (at least he's progressed from getting beat by double amputees in his debut), Jay Lethal being MIA for 30 days after his signing, Andrade doing nothing of note (although is he having Visa issues or something?), Christian Cage being third banana to Jungle Boy, and Jake Haggar doing nothing but standing behind Jericho looking mean for about three years, and hottest free agent in Wrestling Tony Nese going from being on WWE's third tier show nobody watched to being on AEW's third rate show nobody watches. The track record of people who hadn't been used well elsewhere being stars in AEW is mixed, at best. Some people who were already big names elsewhere (Danielson, Moxley, Sting, Jericho), are arguably being used better in AEW but in terms of people who were not being pushed as stars in other places being pushed as stars in AEW, it seems like a case of counting the hits (Ruby Soho, maybe Malakai Black, Pac) and ignoring the misses (mostly everyone else).

I just sorta see it as growing pains. They've done remarkably well overall and are growing their roster faster than their 3ish hours a week (not including Dark) can accommodate. I say give it some time, let them balance things out, and see where we end up. I'm sure once they've figured stuff out they'll do a nice even distribution. 



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Runa216 said:
JWeinCom said:

With all the talk about AEW letting wrestlers shine, it's a bit confusing to see Shawn Spears lose in about 10 seconds (at least he's progressed from getting beat by double amputees in his debut), Jay Lethal being MIA for 30 days after his signing, Andrade doing nothing of note (although is he having Visa issues or something?), Christian Cage being third banana to Jungle Boy, and Jake Haggar doing nothing but standing behind Jericho looking mean for about three years, and hottest free agent in Wrestling Tony Nese going from being on WWE's third tier show nobody watched to being on AEW's third rate show nobody watches. The track record of people who hadn't been used well elsewhere being stars in AEW is mixed, at best. Some people who were already big names elsewhere (Danielson, Moxley, Sting, Jericho), are arguably being used better in AEW but in terms of people who were not being pushed as stars in other places being pushed as stars in AEW, it seems like a case of counting the hits (Ruby Soho, maybe Malakai Black, Pac) and ignoring the misses (mostly everyone else).

I just sorta see it as growing pains. They've done remarkably well overall and are growing their roster faster than their 3ish hours a week (not including Dark) can accommodate. I say give it some time, let them balance things out, and see where we end up. I'm sure once they've figured stuff out they'll do a nice even distribution. 

What they're doing now does not speak positively towards their management. These are rookie mistakes happening in a company that has a lot of veteran experience. 


If there are some people within the company who are not that experienced, people whose name may rhyme with Sony Han for instance, then they should be in the back seat learning from the people in the company who have booked wrestling shows and managed wrestling companies. I'm sure if you can see these growing pains, someone like JR, who headed talent relations for WWE during a large swath of their most profitable period, could have seen them coming from a mile away. Which begs the question of why such things are happening.



BasilZero said:
JWeinCom said:

I don't think they need a second brand. They need to establish AEW as a brand before they can worry about establishing Rampage or Dynamite on their own. They just need to hire less people and have someone who knows how to book booking them. Throwing everyone into a stable isn't the way. And prioritizing the right people. Daniel Garcia shouldn't be getting more time than Powerhouse Hobbes. And I can't figure out for the life of me why Riho is getting screen time at all.

BasilZero said:

Yeah that Shawn Spears vs CM Punk match was mind boggling.

Made him look as much of a joke as he was in WWE...

It was more confusing because last time we saw Punk, he got powerbombed like 20 times by Wardlow... So, if ever there was a time for Spears to look competitive, it was then. Have him immediately go for Punk's back. Having Punk come out looking fresh as a Daisy and beating Spears in 10 seconds not only makes Spears look like shit, but takes away from what Wardlow did. Not sure what it accomplished.

Oh wow, didnt catch that since I dont watch AEW continually.


But damn, all to show how OP Punk is I guess.

Sucks it undermines two others.

If I were to play Devil's advocate, I could argue that they're essentially booking Punk like Cena to play into a storyline where he's holding everyone back like he accused WWE of... But I think that's giving them a bit too much credit.

Punk's booking has been a bit weird since coming back. Feels almost like a different show within the show. Booked way different (and generally better) than everything else on the show. And where other storylines tend to bleed into eachother, his are compartmentalized and away from any titles. But, it hasn't really been doing favors for anyone else on the roster. I get after 7 years you don't want Punk to come in and lose (although that would have been interesting wouldn't it?), but at the same time, you don't need to spend time convincing people Punk is a big deal, since they've been chanting his name for nearly a decade. Feels like MJF will probably beat him, but who knows. It could also just be a case of power corrupting, and when Punk has the power to book himself as he pleases, this is how he does it.



Hmm... Idk.

Punk has been working with MID and lower card talent.

You'd expect him to win and he generally makes them look reasonably good in the process. Also puts tonnes of eyes on them they usually wouldn't have.

The Spears "match" was a I joke though.



ironmanDX said:

Hmm... Idk.

Punk has been working with MID and lower card talent.

You'd expect him to win and he generally makes them look reasonably good in the process. Also puts tonnes of eyes on them they usually wouldn't have.

The Spears "match" was a I joke though.

Don't think the people he has been working with have generally been getting much of a boost out of it. Maybe Kingston but I think he got injured after or during the match? That may be more due to overall inconsistency than Punk, but also maybe because of the booking. Generally, it's very hard for a midcarder to really get over on a random losing match against a top guy with no real build. I feel like the main point is to just get Punk on a show to try and pop a rating. Like stupid me who thought "Oh Shawn Spears and CM Punk, that will be good". It's still fairly early in his AEW run, but after the last couple of weeks, you definitely start wondering.



BasilZero said:

AEW Beach break sounds good from what I read.

This Sun is Royal Rumble - we know the Impact Knockouts champion is coming.

I wonder what other surprises we will see.


WWE's roster was so bloated that the past two years I cant think of any memorable surprise entrant for the Rumble PPV - think they just used everyone that they had actively.


Now that the roster is gutted - sure to get some surprises.

I saw the first half or so. Spoilers ahead obviously. The Sammy/Cody ladder match was good. It was mostly a spot fest, but sometimes that's alright. The spots they hit looked good, but a couple of the bumps Sammy took looked really nasty. Not great on psychology, and it's a bit puzzling why they had to go this extreme for a rivalry that really had no personal grudge, but if you like stunts, there were good stunts. Sammy's cutter off the latter legitimately made me gasp.

Britt Baker's promo was pretty good. Obnoxious as fuck like it should be. Leaned a bit too heavy into insulting the Cleveland Browns. I get it, she's from Pittsburg, they were in Cleveland, but she went in hard on that, and it worked great for the crowd there but for the 99% of the TV audience not from Cleveland, who gives a shit. And... kind of unsure what the point was. I mean, it was good at making her look annoying, in a good way, but she's already got that down, and it wasn't promoting any particular match. So... why?

Wardlow beat a couple of jobbers, which is fine. Basically what Ryback did back in the day. They should have gotten smaller guys, because Wardlow is big but not super tall, and this sort of thing just works better when the monster looks bigger by comparison.

Then they had Layla Hirsh vs Red Velvet, and I'm continuously confused why she gets to wrestle live. Just looks awkward. 

Punk called out MJF... and to show how tough he is basically tried to fight off the whole Pinnacle stable? Punks promo was good, but it sort of made him look like a putz for not having a plan for something he should have seen coming from a mile away. And, usually when someone is getting the shit beat out of them in AEW someone comes to make the save, but Punk has no friends.

Lance Archer vs Hangman Page is going to be a death match. For... reasons I guess? I mean, Archer attacked him once... doesn't seem like they'd have such a deep hatred that they'd need to make it a death match. 

I stopped watching after that. Not like, stopped watching because it was bad, just cause I had other stuff to do. Apparently Orange Cassidy beat Adam Cole. Can't speak to the quality of the match, but I'm not a fan of Orange Cassidy's shtick, and if Adam Cole is supposed to be a big star, he shouldn't be losing to a comedy act.

What was there was mostly fine, but you don't get the sense that there's a ton of consistency or planning. Most of the reason I watched was cause I figured I'd see something with Daniel Bryan, but he was nowhere to be seen and not mentioned. Page just got a vinette... and he's like, the champion, and they should presumably be building his feud with Archer. Last episode I saw there was a lot of shit with the Young Bucks and the Undisputed Era, but that was just kind of dropped. Serena Deeb and Hikaru Shida had something going on, but nothing going on there. Ruby Soho got a quick shoutout. Didn't that guy Brody King debut like... a week or two ago? So... shouldn't he be doing something besides a few lines in a Malakai Black promo?

It's kind of like it's being booked by picking names out of a hat, and those people get to be on that week. More or less indy wrestling with a big budget. And, I get some people like indy wrestling, but the whole point of weekly TV is to consistently build people and programs, and not a lot of that going on.



BasilZero said:

AEW Beach break sounds good from what I read.

This Sun is Royal Rumble - we know the Impact Knockouts champion is coming.

I wonder what other surprises we will see.


WWE's roster was so bloated that the past two years I cant think of any memorable surprise entrant for the Rumble PPV - think they just used everyone that they had actively.


Now that the roster is gutted - sure to get some surprises.

I believe Royal Rumble is Saturday. 



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